Chen Guangcheng is in the US embassy in Beijing!!

AssassinsMace said:

Political persecution is relative. There are plenty of people in the US called political prisoners by some but not by the mainstream. The same can be said of China. I laughed when CNN put out a poll if Chen should be considered a hero. I bet 99% of Americans never even heard of him and still don't know because most news media on TV haven't even mentioned what his history is. They just call him a Chinese dissident and that's it. I'm trying to look for articles on a Democrat in the South who was jailed for a long time without due process back during the last Presidential election. He was never charged with anything and he was imprisoned for at least a year. It was all a political maneuver by the GOP to get him out of the picture because was some mover and shaker in the South. This was all over on MSNBC back then. My search parameters are too general.

Back in the 1970s, there was a lot of politcal persecution in San Francisco Chinatown when the pro-Taiwan faction was dominant. They would use threats and intimidation tactics to make sure the Chinese community was in-line with their political beliefs.

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It is still happening,just few months ago I saw on the "New Tang Dynasty Television" they were broadcasting messages like this in Chinese: If you suspected someone is a commie, call the following number and report to the U.S government. I was shocked, then I thought about reporting my political science professor, to get some payback from the boring homworks he assigned; he is a self-proclaimed commie.

SampanViking said:

I am still waiting to learn the substance of issues discussed in the Dialogue, but President Hu's reported, clearly happy and positive demeanour indicated that he is pleased with the outcome.
As for Hillary, well I think a T shirt saying "I went to Beijing but all I got was this lousy dissident!" would pretty much sum it up.

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"China agreed to make changes to boost domestic consumption, harness profits from state-owned firms to boost social spending and slightly open the Chinese economy to additional competition, though none of the commitments are binding on Beijing. The U.S. said it would move more promptly in working out rules governing export of high-tech goods, so long as they are used for non-military purposes."

Will China get its high tech imports from America? Thats the $64.000 whoops Billion dollar question(inflation adjusted)

PhageHunter said:

It is still happening,just few months ago I saw on the "New Tang Dynasty Television" they were broadcasting messages like this in Chinese: If you suspected someone is a commie, call the following number and report to the U.S government. I was shocked, then I thought about reporting my political science professor, to get some payback from the boring homworks he assigned; he is a self-proclaimed commie.

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Not like back in the 1970s but they're still vocal. It's more business than politics now.

bladerunner said:

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"China agreed to make changes to boost domestic consumption, harness profits from state-owned firms to boost social spending and slightly open the Chinese economy to additional competition, though none of the commitments are binding on Beijing. The U.S. said it would move more promptly in working out rules governing export of high-tech goods, so long as they are used for non-military purposes."

Will China get its high tech imports from America? Thats the $64.000 whoops Billion dollar question(inflation adjusted)

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Pretty much all of the things agreed by Beijing are already official policy anyway.

The most interesting items are ones that do not appear in the article or communique at all. The build up to this round of talks were almost exclusively based around Foreign Policy issues and the US looking to solicit help in regard to North Korea, Syria and Iran. It looks as thought the Chen affair has swept all of these off the table and were never matters of serious discussion.

Hilllary has nothing to show for this other than a Chinese re commitment to boosting demand for imports. I suppose you could read that as a non binding agreement by Beijing not to squeezer monetary policy too much in the future.
Its something I suppose, but not much.

SampanViking said:

Pretty much all of the things agreed by Beijing are already official policy anyway.

The most interesting items are ones that do not appear in the article or communique at all. The build up to this round of talks were almost exclusively based around Foreign Policy issues and the US looking to solicit help in regard to North Korea, Syria and Iran. It looks as thought the Chen affair has swept all of these off the table and were never matters of serious discussion.

Hilllary has nothing to show for this other than a Chinese re commitment to boosting demand for imports. I suppose you could read that as a non binding agreement by Beijing not to squeezer monetary policy too much in the future.
Its something I suppose, but not much.

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Man, you really took the leaf out of my mouth there, and I couldn't agree more. Yes, what I noticed as well was that all the "concessions" here were already under way. And yes, the whole Chen affair seems to have resulted in the Chinese shutting the door on FP cooperation, which is not too surprising. In most cases, FP discussions relates to how China must step in and aid the US in some affair...I don't think China would be too interested in giving the US anything like that while US officials are intervening into a Chinese law case.

This whole Chen saga is bewildering to me. First of all, how the hell can they let a blind man escape from house arrest to the U.S. Embassy? Those guards' careers are in the toilet now.

Second, now that China has been humiliated once, why do China's leaders continue letting themselves be humiliated by letting Chen voice his desire for asylum in America, call the American Congress, appeal to Hillary Clinton, and even letting him apply for a student visa? Don't they know he's going to continue his campaign for human rights in America? I fully expected an agency with the Ministry of Public Security's reputation for efficiency and ruthlessness to pounce on Chen a dozen muscle men as soon as he left the U.S. Embassy and spirit him away to a prison far away from the media. But no, they let him roam the city, calling America and talking to the media? What kind of police are they?

Now before you all say this just proves China isn't so bad after all, then why was Chen under house arrest to begin with? If someone is under house arrest and he escapes, a credible police system has to come down hard on the escapee to maintain credibility. Chen is making a complete joke out of the the whole MPS and Chinese leadership.

Now on NBC news they're reporting all friends that come to see Chen have been beaten. More contradictions. What, none of these reporters at the hospital witnessed this?

I think it was all concocted from the beginning. It does smell more like a Fulan Gong stunt. The main stickler is how is he getting all this stuff out when his supporters and the media say he's being guarded at the hospital? And if friends are being beaten trying to visit why wasn't this reported earlier until now? Sounds like a plan to keep attention in the media by throwing out new revelations.

This would've happened no matter what happened. If the US decided to protect Chen, that would've been a coup by these conspirators. If China made a big display in protest, that would've worked in Chen's favor. What's odd is he's slapping the face of the US government while he's at it. That takes some politcal savy to know how to maneuver that. That cannot be thought up by someone living in China. For someone like Chen who has never lived in democracy, you don't easily understand your rights in a Western sense. You don't mess with any government especially when you want something from them. I know plenty of immigrant Chinese who look at US police in the same way as police in China. They don't see them as an enforcer of law but an enforcer of who's in power. They never experienced it any other way so how would they know? And they certainly don't know the full extent of what democracy is.

Just like the dissidents of one infamous event who fled China after their pro-"democracy" movement was crushed by the government. They thought democracy was just having a little bit more freedom than they had. Even Western journalists interviewing them noted they didn't know what real democracy means. Or just like Taiwanese spout out democracy like they've had it as long as the US. Taiwan was a parallel police state to the communist government for most of its history but it's as simple as they're in the US's favor which makes all the difference to them. Like I pointed before in the 1970s, the pro-Taiwan faction in San Francisco used intimidation and threats to keep the Chinese community in-line with their politcs. I wouldn't call that someone who cares about democracy. And you still see that misunderstanding today because it's still all about who's side you're on and not about principles.

So there must be an outside influence at work like the Falun Gong in exile or even anti-abortion minded/anti-China crowd who naturally favor someone like Chen who are working behind the scenes. I don't believe at all Chen was as imprisoned in his home like the propaganda says. His escape and being blind puts that all into question. So he could easily have visitors like his friends spreading his message out like right now. But then like those that hide behind democracy but practice otherwise in reality, like they would care about the facts or bother to notice their own contradictions? To them it's all about who's side you're on. How undemocratic.

Hillary and Geithner's meeting with their Chinese counterparts. Notice how there's almost no media coverage about that

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What?? Are you sure??

gjy2105 said:

lol well no duh if you specifically google for it. Not very many people will.

I'm talking about the main conversation in the media discourse. The main focus is on Chen and human rights. If none of that had happened, I could imagine the main conversation in media being much more about the economic and strategic dialogue.

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+100000

I've not been keeping on top of news very much, but i'm shocked at the disproportionate amount of coverage this case is getting. On the BBC they're even calling it a full blown crisis and making inevitable references to how this is a major turning point in politics, threat to government etc etc. It's not like there haven't been dissidents before, and there definitely will be in future.

I mean from what I'm reading, this guy was not exactly "anti government" per se and calling for all or nothing change to democracy for the hell of it, but highlighting some abuses of power in local governments(?). Yet reading the bbc at least, you'd think he was another one of those democracy-or-bust nutjobs... and in this case he doesn't seem to be.

Also confusing is just how big of a "shadow" this is having over the strategic dialogue -- why exactly is his detaining or immigration to the US a big deal? I see no major incentive for the chinese government to have a desire to keep him in china or boot him out?
And there was also a mention of how this case was tied to the political manoeuvering in the power change, and claims that this was linked to the bo xilai case?? wtf?

They are making this into such a big deal it's funny, check these out:





TIME has really gone downhill as far as reporting on China goes. They are trying to tie Bo Xilai and Cheng together to imply something big is happening. I guess 2012 prophecy may be getting into some of the writers there.