Can China wage "small wars"?

Nethappy

NO WAR PLS
VIP Professional
Originally Posted by Gaginang
regarding to the chinese evacuate the chinese indonesian, it's pointless because no chinese indonesian would go to china. the motherland. and become to the slave of chinese, while they live like king indonesia.

What do u mean slave of Chinese?
How much do u know about life in China?
For a matter of fact have you ever been there?

Well, if the roit was really bad enough, some chinese might going back to the motherland. Better alive then being king and dead.
Not the whole ethnic chinese population in Indonesian were really rich. It was only a minority of the chinese Indonesian were rich.

Originally Posted by Gaginang
Militarily indonesia is a tough beat for the chinese. Indonesia do have a quiet impressive navy crack with.
Indonesia navy crack more info pls!
From my knowledge even the Aussie Navy can knock out the Indonesia Navy.

Originally Posted by KYli
Of course the intervention should only occurs when there are no longer any alternatives left within the situation. As the state that fails to protect it's citizens, the first thing Chinese governments should do is to send in the helicopters and Warships to bring out Chinese. It didn't matter whether they were already citizens of the country, so long as they were Chinese, they will be lift out. If the country refused to accept peaceful intervention to let Chinese out of the country and continued to killed Chinese, then China should call upon the UN to moblize their force to launch an attack on the respective country in small scale to demotrate that they were serious. As long as the genocide stopped, China should not be overly extend their persent in the respective state. For the overseas Chinese China should ensure their safty before they left, or if it is impossible china could always take them back.

KYli, I can understand you stance and I hope the Chinese Govt. can protect all the ethnic Chinese in the world too. Nevertheless, it not always possible.
Everything has too be done according to internation laws, some time not even the UN Security Counil can do anyway when it's a Nation Internal matter. Most of the time the Chinese Govt. only option in these crisis is to extend it political pressures on the related country, with the exception that Chinese citizens a involed were as a military option is available when all political option fail.

For matter of fact, some time is not the Chinese govt. don't want to help the ethnice Chinese but it also because of the consequence.
In the worse situation it may lend to open war and the possible that US would jump at the opportunity to damage as much of PLA as they can.
Politically and soft power is really Chinese best option.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Gaginang said:
regarding to the chinese evacuate the chinese indonesian, it's pointless because no chinese indonesian would go to china. the motherland. and become to the slave of chinese, while they live like king indonesia.

the chinese indonesian had lived prosperately with the indonesian natives for centuries. the chinese were target in the recent riots a few years back, were from jealousy of chinese business success.

militarily indonesia is a tough beat for the chinese. indonesia do have a quiet impressive navy crack with.
If there are some Chinese don't want to go to China, they could always have the choice to go to third countries. And I strongly disagree there would not be many Chinese want to return back to motherland, you might not known there are many Weathy indonesia fujainese Chinese who lived in Xiamen. I knew it because after what had happened in 1998, many of them flee from Indonesia and came to Xiamen. Yeah, some of them go to other countries, but still send their children to Xiamen for education. So do not give me the BS about they would be slave of China, you just don't know enough to say it. BTW I am a fujianese.

There are many rich and weathy Indonesia who live in very comfortable life in Indonesia, but there are also many poor Chinese Indonesians who want to have better lives elsewhere. Of course it might not necessary be China, but you can't rule out many of them would like to back China. Actually when China abandon the dual citizens in 1955, there are quick a lot of outcry from Indonesia Chinese.

After the Asia Financial crisis, Indoesnia really don't stand a chance against Chinese Navy, it would take time for them to rebuilt their force upto what they are capable in 1998. I wouldn't even think there are remote possibility that Indonesia could defeat Chinese Navy, if you don't believe me ask anyone here which are not Chinese.

KYli, I can understand you stance and I hope the Chinese Govt. can protect all the ethnic Chinese in the world too. Nevertheless, it not always possible.
Everything has too be done according to internation laws, some time not even the UN Security Counil can do anyway when it's a Nation Internal matter. Most of the time the Chinese Govt. only option in these crisis is to extend it political pressures on the related country, with the exception that Chinese citizens a involed were as a military option is available when all political option fail.

For matter of fact, some time is not the Chinese govt. don't want to help the ethnice Chinese but it also because of the consequence.
In the worse situation it may lend to open war and the possible that US would jump at the opportunity to damage as much of PLA as they can.
Politically and soft power is really Chinese best option
I knew that it wasn't possible sometime, but I just think China should do the share to help Overseas Chinese especially in the South east Asia. China had let down these people many time from the Ming Dynasty to Today, how many genocides are conducting toward Chinese. But the Chinese government never acted to protect them, just because it would be difficult does not mean it should not worth the efforts. It don't have to be military intervention, but more politcal pressure and right diplomacy always help. You have to understand when the CCP want to spread Communism in SEA, how many harms has been done to these people. I just want to see China do more.

Of course everything should act according to international laws, I would not suggest otherwise.

But there are quick many incidents that US and western nations send in their military to airlifed their people. As far as I remember that they had airlifed every white in Rwanda even the citizens of Rwanda as long as they were white. So China could do the same, just they should be more careful and only acted when all other options are out.

Actually how many countries really care about internation laws, as far as I knew US and Israel always broke them or get around them.:)

I think there should be no afraid of US military intervention if these were only humanitary aisstance, even if US got involved. China could claim the moral high ground, as long as China did not exposed the situations for political interest. US could not do significant damage if China only got in and get out quickly just enough to help the overseas Chinese. But of course all of these would has to be done only all options are unavailable, also there really are genocide toward the Overseas Chinese. Also China should only do it according in the international laws.
 
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Nethappy

NO WAR PLS
VIP Professional
Of course everything should act according to international laws, I would not suggest otherwise. But there are quick many incidents that US and western nations send in their military to airlifed their people, as far as I remember that they had airlifed every white in Rwanda even the citizens of Rwanda as long as they were white. So China could do the same, just they should be more careful and only acted when all other options are out. Actually how many countries really care about internation laws, as far as I knew US and Israel always broke them or get around them.

I think there should be no afraid of US military intervention if these were only humanitary aisstance, even if US got involved. China could claim the moral high ground, as long as China did not exposed the situations for political interest. US could not do significant damage if China only got in and get out quickly just enough to help the overseas Chinese. But of course all of these would has to be done only all options are unavailable, also there really are genocide toward the Overseas Chinese.

As far as I know the Rwanda opt was aproved by UN SC, any military intervention by the Chinese need to be UN SC approved. Otherwise it doesn't really even matter if China claim the moral high ground, the US or country wich the gencide is in can offical claim the rescue mission as an invasion.

Many country really care for internation laws, and I think China should obey these laws. That would in time allow China to be in the moral high ground.

I agree with you that CHINA should help overseas Chinese.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Ok, do i smell nationalism in here?? Dry to keep it down, and focus more on the actual topic, not squabeling about where can outside chinese go and on what motives...

Ps. and Indonesia has quite impressive navy, maybe not similar in size as in china, but still very potent opponent against what ever PLAN could send to their back waters....Wheter they will beat chinese or not, is different question, but PLAN today isent that impressive, to be bratteled on distant invertion operations, which require power projection capapility
 

KYli

Brigadier
Gollevainen said:
Ok, do i smell nationalism in here?? Dry to keep it down, and focus more on the actual topic, not squabeling about where can outside chinese go and on what motives...

Ps. and Indonesia has quite impressive navy, maybe not similar in size as in china, but still very potent opponent against what ever PLAN could send to their back waters....Wheter they will beat chinese or not, is different question, but PLAN today isent that impressive, to be bratteled on distant invertion operations, which require power projection capapility
Don't worry, Golly. I would never post anything offensive enough or any Nationalism outburst. But I would probably not post in this forum anymore, it would be better for me just spend more time reading posts such as I used to do in many other forums. So no worry;) .

Indonesia Navy was quick impressive, but after Asia Financial Crisis they were no more than than just medium. PLAN might not have the power projection capability, but they still are outnumber and outgun what Indonesia had. Of course I would not suggest it would be easy task for China, but unless Indonesia had more warships and subs they simply were not capable to defend from China's navy assault. Since Indonesia had better economic right now, they would probably do some purchase. So the future will be brighter for Indonesia Navy.

As far as I know the Rwanda opt was aproved by UN SC, any military intervention by the Chinese need to be UN SC approved. Otherwise it doesn't really even matter if China claim the moral high ground, the US or country wich the gencide is in can offical claim the rescue mission as an invasion.

Many country really care for internation laws, and I think China should obey these laws. That would in time allow China to be in the moral high ground.

I agree with you that CHINA should help overseas Chinese
I agreed with you that China should act only upon international law, I would not suggest otherwise. My implication was that many countries didn't fellowed international law, but not necessary China should do the same. I might write the post too fast, and get you confused so I would edit it now.:)
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
One brief point.

If deliberate genocide was being waged against a Chinese population, this would be a very different situation. The United Nations is under an obligation to intervene with massive and decisive force in such situations and China is of course a Permenant Member of the Security Council.

I do not think you can easily generalise on this subject, each instance would really need to be judged on its particulars. World opinion and the appearance of proportionality are all important and any reaction would be weighed carefully in these scales.

These are probably factors which will affect China's ability to fight these small wars even more than its military capabilites.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Well, we can see one thing from all this. China is going to need to adjust to the constraints of superpower-dom. It never had these sorts of problems before, and things world opinion and proportional response in military action are things that the PRC has never had to deal with before. They might make some mistakes.
 
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