Bluffers Guide: Iranian Naval Capability 2007

bigstick61

bigstick61

Junior Member
I think the US would be able to handle the boats. It's not like this is the first time they have done something like this, and we have fought such tactics by them in actual combat with great success. The scale appears to be larger though. However, I think that the combination of .30 cal., .50 cal., 20mm, and 25mm machineguns, 20mm CIWS guns (many fitted with kits for targeting high-speed small craft), and HE and ICM gun projectiles from the 3" and 5" guns (especially the new 5" ICM round intended partly for this purpose), along with the use of weapons on helicopters and maybe fixed-wing aircraft (employing guns, rockets, and weapons dispensing submunitions) can deal quite well with this problem.
 
Tasman

Tasman

Junior Member
bigstick61 said:
I think the US would be able to handle the boats. It's not like this is the first time they have done something like this, and we have fought such tactics by them in actual combat with great success. The scale appears to be larger though. However, I think that the combination of .30 cal., .50 cal., 20mm, and 25mm machineguns, 20mm CIWS guns (many fitted with kits for targeting high-speed small craft), and HE and ICM gun projectiles from the 3" and 5" guns (especially the new 5" ICM round intended partly for this purpose), along with the use of weapons on helicopters and maybe fixed-wing aircraft (employing guns, rockets, and weapons dispensing submunitions) can deal quite well with this problem.
Click to expand...

What you say is true. However, I wonder if there is also a case for the US and allied navies to reconsider acquiring their own high speed vessels specifically designed to counter swarm attacks, in the same way that the pre WW1 torpedo boat destroyer was developed to counter torpedo boats? I think 16 knot minesweepers would have limitations when trying to deal with high speed craft and I can see a definite role for a 50 knot gunboat armed with a 57mm main gun, a secondary 25mm Mark 38 Mod 2 (or Typhoon) and a couple of Mini Typhoons.

Cheers
 
T

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Like it is implied in the article - biggest hurdle iranians will have to overcome using such tactics is communication and coordination between those vessels. I would imagine that any sort of long range radio communcation would be jammed, so they would have to rely on relatively compact groups of boats, not more than few km apart where they can use short range milimeter wave in line-of-sight communication. That won't really allow for attacking a target from ALL directions, but it could be enough for a range of boats approaching a ship from a 120 degree arc.

Another massive problem for them will be information. Just how will they know where the enemy is? While they can control their side of the strait, using the mountains for higer vantage point, perhaps using IR sensors to get some extra range, it won't be enough to cover the whole strait. They would have to venture out into the strait with ships - to uncover possible targets.

Only way they could effectively monitor whole strait is with radars - which means they would have to have a vast and robust network of radars, enough to last for a long time under US attacks.

Also, they should use at least some kind of stand off weapons - not actually get into gun range. Something in class of a TOW missile would be perfect -wire guided, impossible to jam, yet giving several kms of breathing room, just outside of various guns, CIWS etc.
 
planeman

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re the Klub missiles and the Kilos, note that whilst many forumites say that Iran has Klub, news articles suggest future purchases not current operational capabilities. Same goes for S-300 SAMs of course.

Re the USN article about the fleet of small boats. I think this is more an alarmist rehash of what we already know - see "boghammers" in my review - too many types to illustrate them all but in general they lack credible armament to do serious damage toa warship except as mine layers or suicde boats. Bullets to shoot at boats are still cheaper than boats. I'm not dismising them but I think, like I'd expect many observers here, that the Western press plays things up and even the DoD is inclined to give "menace spin" to suite its political masters.
 
crazyinsane105

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Totoro said:
Like it is implied in the article - biggest hurdle iranians will have to overcome using such tactics is communication and coordination between those vessels. I would imagine that any sort of long range radio communcation would be jammed, so they would have to rely on relatively compact groups of boats, not more than few km apart where they can use short range milimeter wave in line-of-sight communication. That won't really allow for attacking a target from ALL directions, but it could be enough for a range of boats approaching a ship from a 120 degree arc.

Another massive problem for them will be information. Just how will they know where the enemy is? While they can control their side of the strait, using the mountains for higer vantage point, perhaps using IR sensors to get some extra range, it won't be enough to cover the whole strait. They would have to venture out into the strait with ships - to uncover possible targets.

Only way they could effectively monitor whole strait is with radars - which means they would have to have a vast and robust network of radars, enough to last for a long time under US attacks.

Also, they should use at least some kind of stand off weapons - not actually get into gun range. Something in class of a TOW missile would be perfect -wire guided, impossible to jam, yet giving several kms of breathing room, just outside of various guns, CIWS etc.
Click to expand...

During the Israel Lebanon conflict, the IDF was unable to either intercept or jam Hezbullah's radio network and above that, Hezbullah had some level of success in intercepting Israeli communications.

Iran has quite a few stand off weapons (mostly man portable). They include different types of anti-armor missiles (copies of HJ-8, TOW, etc.).

It would be interesting to see the IRIAF come into play as Iran has the helicopter launched version of the C-701 and Iran has a number of aircraft that are quite capable of launching C-802's and whatever other anti-ship missiles Iran has been making indigenously.

But yes, the biggest problem is coordination. How Iran will achieve that is beyond me.
 
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