battle for Changsa,1939

ABC78

Junior Member
Has there ever been a movie or tv series made about the Battles of Changsha that were not documentaries?

I've seen the movies The Battle of Taierzhuang, Death and Glory in Changde, 800 Heroes and that recent mainland TV series covering The Battle of Shanghai and the defense of Sihang Warehouse.
 

pissybits

Junior Member
Has there ever been a movie or tv series made about the Battles of Changsha that were not documentaries?

I've seen the movies The Battle of Taierzhuang, Death and Glory in Changde, 800 Heroes and that recent mainland TV series covering The Battle of Shanghai and the defense of Sihang Warehouse.

i don't think so, though i'm not really a fan of these tv dramas they keep making about the war against the japanese. however a battle of changsha movie/film would be awesome! preferably in changsha dialect, the most badass dialect of china imho hahaha.
 

hardware

Banned Idiot
with properly arms, KMT could be strong fighting forces, notice during the fighting in burma road,here the KMT were arm sherman tank 105mm artillery,thompson machine gun ,flame thrower.bazooka and adequate air support.

NHK documentary interview several japanese veteran fought in burma,most of them still recall and shock by there encounter with KMT 's troop when equip US made weapon.
 

Lion

Senior Member
First, you should look up the definition of "valor" before claiming that I'm trying to belittle the soldiers of the NRA in the War of Resistance.

Second, the lack of equipment does not excuse the strategy of Chiang. Look at the Defense of the Great Wall: the 29th Army was forced to create sword-fighting units because they were so poorly supplied. Nevertheless, they still held the Great Wall for months and even defeated the Japanese at Xifeng Kou. Imagine how long they could have held with proper supplies and better trained troops!

Now take a look at the Battle of Shanghai. Chiang decided to throw in his most elite divisions against the Japanese, in a battlefield that allowed the Japanese to fully exert their overwhelming naval and aerial firepower. Shanghai just happens to be the seat of Chiang's power. Coincidence?

In fact, you are wrong about the "no airforce, no armour" part. If you look at the Battle of Shanghai, the KMT made use of airforce, tanks, and howitzers. Remember how the 29th Army had to use swords because they didn't have enough bullets for everyone? Hmmmm.....

Now fast-forward 13 years. The Chinese army, with no navy, no armour, and very little air force and heavy artillery, managed to rout an opponent that deployed Sherman Tanks and B-29 Superfortress bombers. *That* is competence.

Agree Battle of Shanghai was disaster but Chiang needs to demonstrate to the world especially US that KMT has the will to battle the Japanese to win their support and military aid. Shanghai happens to be his important, if he throw some half-cook soldier or even retreat without a fight. He will not convinced US of his will and not received the important US military aid the the following 8 years.

Just like Tet offensive of Vietnam war. In military context, its a disaster but in overall strategy, it dent American hopes of continue the Vietnam War.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
with properly arms, KMT could be strong fighting forces, notice during the fighting in burma road,here the KMT were arm sherman tank 105mm artillery,thompson machine gun ,flame thrower.bazooka and adequate air support.

NHK documentary interview several japanese veteran fought in burma,most of them still recall and shock by there encounter with KMT 's troop when equip US made weapon.

Both KMT and CCP can fight when they want to. Both have also show if properly armed and trained can getter done.(Burma KMT, Korea CCP) Both had capable field commanders for the most part when the leaders stayed out of the way or didn't micro manage from a far. It's just to close call.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
i don't think so, though i'm not really a fan of these tv dramas they keep making about the war against the japanese. however a battle of changsha movie/film would be awesome! preferably in changsha dialect, the most badass dialect of china imho hahaha.

Well both could be done. A movie could only truly cover the third battle. A well made tv series could cover all the battles of Changsha.(And a lot of those dramas are bad 1 in 5 can be good)
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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solarz

Brigadier
Supplied with what? Chinese forces had very little supplies to begin with. Chinese troops had no experience with industrialied warfare and the troops knows only how to fight WWI battles at the beginning.

You do know why Chiang forced the battle at Shanghai, right? The reason is to force the Japs to go through China horizontally instead of vertically. If the Japs go down from the north plains, they can leverage their vastly more superior mobility and armour to sweep across China vertically like the German did in Europe. If the Japs had to go through China horizontally through Shanghai, they have to go through areas of China that are full of rivers and lakes, which greatly reduce their mobility and give China some breathing room to mobilize.

He leverage the best of what he got because of the point I made above.
They don't have enough bullets because the transportation system was horrible. Chiang mobilize forces from all over China, but large portion of the forces had to get to Shanghai by foot and got wiped out right after they reach their positions because of their poor training (they don't know about preparing their positions for artillery bombardments

Those troops are battle harden troops that are much much better equiped than the Chinese forces during the Japanese invasion. What ever their competences, they couldn't push the American past the 38 parallel due to supply problems, something Chinese forces had to deal with the entire time during the war of resistance. At least they have a stable rear that can produce supplies/materials steadily

Thank you for proving my point. Chiang forced the battle at Shanghai because he thought he could grind down the Japanese there. Instead, he lost his most elite divisions and directly led to the Nanjing Massacre. In the end, China lost more than Japan in the Battle of Shanghai. That is *NOT* what I'd call competence!

Traditionally, China has always been invaded from the north, because that is where the most militarily defensible positions are. That is why the Great Wall was built there. If you read about the Battle of Shanghai, the Japanese Navy refused to take on Shanghai alone, and the Army had to get involved. That means if Chiang had met the IJA in the north, they would likely not have had enough manpower to take on Shanghai.

Again, I would refer you to the defense of the Great Wall. 300k NRA soldiers defended the Wall for months. Are you going to tell me that Chiang could get 300k men there, but couldn't send them enough bullets throughout months of battle? Forget tanks and howitzers, get those guys enough machine guns and mortars and they would've sent the mere 50k Japanese troops packing. Of course, that would've meant equipping troops that were not particularly loyal to Chiang (the reason they were sent north in the first place), and having the risk of Song Zheyuan going warlord.

You mentioned the Japanese having the advantage in the north because of their mobility and armor. Well yes, if by "north" you mean the Central Plains. That is why the Great Wall is crucial. The ROC was not the first Chinese "dynasty" to face an enemy with superior mobility. The Ming fought Mongols and Manchu, both of whom had a lot more cavalry than the Ming. There's a reason why, when Wu Sangui surrendered the Shanhai pass, the Qing were able to sweep south practically unopposed.
 

Lion

Senior Member
You mentioned the Japanese having the advantage in the north because of their mobility and armor. Well yes, if by "north" you mean the Central Plains. That is why the Great Wall is crucial. The ROC was not the first Chinese "dynasty" to face an enemy with superior mobility. The Ming fought Mongols and Manchu, both of whom had a lot more cavalry than the Ming. There's a reason why, when Wu Sangui surrendered the Shanhai pass, the Qing were able to sweep south practically unopposed.

Qing could not take the southern Ming China only until Zhen cheng gong died.
 
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