AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

Lethe

Captain
Yet, it's strange, if not bizarre that Sky News failed to meaningfully elaborate further, if at all upon the tensions between Canberra and Beijing and their root causes, or is introspection and/or cause and effect just "not a thing" in Australia with mainstream media and/or most audiences?

Sky is basically the Fox News of Australia, with all that implies.

Why is Dutton looking to acquire additional F-35A airframes when the F-35B, which should be able to operate off of the RAN's two Canberra LHDs, is almost certainly available?

I can only assume the Canberra LHDs were constructed with ski jumps for a reason, so it seems illogical that Dutton isn't prioritizing the acquisition of the F-35B.

Apologies, F-35A was my own flourish. Our existing F-35s are all As. Dutton doesn't appear to have specified a variant for this notional fourth squadron.

Officially, the ski ramp was incidental to Australia's selection of the Spanish Juan Carlos design for its LHDs: apparently it was more expensive to remove the ramp than to keep it. The claim is that we've never given serious thought to acquiring F-35Bs to operate from them.

Of course, it was also claimed that Australia had no need of SSNs and that their acquisition was impractical, until one day it turned out that SSNs were both readily achievable and in fact essential...
 
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00CuriousObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm seeing articles criticizing Aussie's overreaction, which is amusing to me.

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They are also calling for more spending on defense. But tbh, would increased defense spending even make a fundamental change? To go from 4 ships in the Aussie navy to 8 ships?
 
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lych470

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm seeing articles criticizing Aussie's overreaction, which is amusing to me.

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They are also calling for more spending on defense. But tbh, would increased defense spending even make a fundamental change? To go from 4 ships in the Aussie navy to 8 ships?

Australian politicians must be seen to be doing something. Getting additional hardware is an easy win on paper; you are spending money, warplanes make for a good media-op, the top brass will be happy as well.

Good luck recruiting the men and women needed to operate those weapons, though. ADF, I would argue, has its image thoroughly tarnished in recent times - from the Afghanistan war crimes, to the Royal Commission into Veterans Suicide, to the RAAF Williamstown Base PFAS scandal. At the end of the day it's just not great bang for the bucks. You could be making more as a tradie without dealing with the BS bureaucracy.
 

Lethe

Captain
I'm seeing articles criticizing Aussie's overreaction, which is amusing to me.

They are also calling for more spending on defense. But tbh, would increased defense spending even make a fundamental change? To go from 4 ships in the Aussie navy to 8 ships?

You may be thinking of New Zealand. RAN has three Hobart-class destroyers and seven ANZAC-class frigates in service, ten surface combatants in total.

The current plan is to double that inventory over time, retaining the Hobart-class destroyers and adding six Hunter-class frigates (derived from British Type 26) and eleven Tier 2 frigates derived from either the Germany Meko A-200 or Japanese Mogami designs, the selection due by the end of the year, or perhaps early next year, depending on who is talking.

On the submarine side the plan is to put our six Collins-class SSKs through a life-extension program beginning next year, while acquiring three Virginia-class SSNs from the US in early-mid 2030s, and eventually building SSNs of a British design here to replace both the Collins and Virginia-class boats.

If realised, that would be a formidable inventory indeed for a nation of Australia's size. If realised. Beyond the formidable budgetary and industrial challenges of acquiring and building all this stuff, the personnel profile required to operate and sustain an inventory of this size looms as the greatest obstacle to be overcome. That fewer crew are required to operate the British SSN(R) compared to the Virginia-class submarines was likely a meaningful factor in selecting the former for the long-term "build it here" component of AUKUS, so there is evidently some level of awareness about the challenges ahead. But the greater part of those challenges lie beyond the immediate political horizon and are thus safely filed under Somebody Else's Problem.
 
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lych470

Junior Member
Registered Member
Guess it's now China's turn to drop hydrophones and sonobuoys outside submarine bases.

Possibility of another live fire drill outside HMAS Stirling?

Also my utmost respect to the sailors. A month at sea without port visits. I wonder where they would dock to get resupplies - Indonesia? Malaysia? Or whether they'd just head to one of the bases in the SCS.
 

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Also my utmost respect to the sailors. A month at sea without port visits. I wonder where they would dock to get resupplies - Indonesia? Malaysia? Or whether they'd just head to one of the bases in the SCS.

The sailors aboard the PLANS 107 Zunyi, 568 Hengyang and 887 Weishanhu are conducting an unprecedented, first of its kind patrol, at least for the PLAN, around the Australian coastline. This will be a story that their kids and grandkids will be hearing about for decades to come.

Their mission has not been easy, but the mission they've performed will give much, if not most of these sailors an immense sense of purpose and a great deal of pride, which they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.

Officially, the ski ramp was incidental to Australia's selection of the Spanish Juan Carlos design for its LHDs: apparently it was more expensive to remove the ramp than to keep it. The claim is that we've never given serious thought to acquiring F-35Bs to operate from them.

Not sure how that actually works, but I think we've all been around long enough to know that defense acquisitions don't always (appear to) make sense, especially when we don't know all the political, diplomatic, bureaucratic, logistical and/or financial considerations in play.

Regardless, I thought the Australian authorities have been flirting with the idea of acquiring F-35Bs for a while now?

Seems like a logical capability to pursue, assuming the requisite resources can be availed, especially considering the direction the RAN appears to be heading towards. If the RAN wants to add six 8,000+ ton "frigates" and SSNs to its fleet, then it sounds like power projection is the goal.

That fewer crew are required to operate the British SSN(R) compared to the Virginia-class submarines was likely a meaningful factor in selecting the former for the long-term "build it here" component of AUKUS, so there is evidently some level of awareness about the challenges ahead. But the greater part of those challenges lie beyond the immediate political horizon and are thus safely filed under Somebody Else's Problem.

How significant of a savings in terms of manpower did the British SSN proposal offer compare to the American SSN proposal?

From a logistical and training point of view, it might make more sense to build Virginia class derivatives in Australia, if that's what your sailors are already familiar with . . . or is the SSN(R) in fact a derivative of the Virginia class as is?
 
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