ASBM with anti-missile defensive mini missiles

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Well I just think that having a missile to attack the SM-3s is pointless, since you make things a lot easier by just letting the SM-3s target your sub-missiles instead. Why would you need to aim for a missile aimed at you? Just have the submunitions attack their targets and naturally the SM-3s will be spent trying to intercept those mssiles/bombs/whatevers. Just give the ship's radar/combat management systems more targets to deal with and force them to fire more SM-3s. Along the same principles as MIRV.

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Because the mini-missile can't go very far.
Imagine, the ASBM have reentered the atmosphere on its descending phase during the terminal phase. Launching at that high point, the mini missile wouldn't have enough fuel to reach the ship.

Not to mention, the ship defense can distinguish the profile of a ASBM and the mini missiles, the SM-3 still can bypass the small one and will head straight toward the ASBM.

Well even if you get past the problems associated with ballistic speed, the higher value target is the ship not the missile from it trying to shoot down the ASBM. So like I said from the beginning, if you can have anti-missile missiles with the ASBM, why bother and just have multiple weapons separate and go after the ship(s)?

AssassinsMace said:

Well even if you get past the problems associated with ballistic speed, the higher value target is the ship not the missile from it trying to shoot down the ASBM. So like I said from the beginning, if you can have anti-missile missiles with the ASBM, why bother and just have multiple weapons separate and go after the ship(s)?

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Then each of the multiple weapons will require a separate radar and sensor especailly if the ASBM is destroyed /wo any defensive mechanisms.

Also, the multiple standard weapons might be too heavy that it might affact the flight pattern of the ASBM, whereas small AAM sized mini-missiles are light enough to be non-factor on weight of the ASBM.

I am not sure maybe It's also possible like you said.

lilzz said:

Then each of the multiple weapons will require a separate radar and sensor especailly if the ASBM is destroyed /wo any defensive mechanisms.

Also, the multiple standard weapons might be too heavy that it might affact the flight pattern of the ASBM, whereas small AAM sized mini-missiles are light enough to be non-factor on weight of the ASBM.

I am not sure maybe It's also possible like you said.

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I'm entertaining the thought if you get anything to survive coming down to Earth at ballistic speed. I only mentioned AShMs because they have their own guidance system and the data they recieve can come from the same source as where an ASBM would. The reality is "mini-missiles" or anything else doesn't look like they would survive re-entry in the first place. The only way is to use decoys and/or MIRV the ASBM if SM-3s are seen as a threat. But then a good ole assymetrical saturation offense will probably work just as well without the cost of developing new defenses.

AssassinsMace said:

I'm entertaining the thought if you get anything to survive coming down to Earth at ballistic speed. I only mentioned AShMs because they have their own guidance system and the data they recieve can come from the same source as where an ASBM would. The reality is "mini-missiles" or anything else doesn't look like they would survive re-entry in the first place. The only way is to use decoys and/or MIRV the ASBM if SM-3s are seen as a threat. But then a good ole assymetrical saturation offense will probably work just as well without the cost of developing new defenses.

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Maybe internal bay inside the ASBM. If the missiles are small, they should fit in.

Standard ASHM are too big to fit inside the ASBM and might not be strong enough for reentry.

Well the ASBM isn't slowing down enough for anything. That's where a lot of its damage comes from is the kinetic energy. Your mini-missiles aren't going to be able to take that stress. When it leaves the ASBM from the internal bay, it's going to be destroyed. Plus your mini-missiles are guided. Meaning, if they survive separation, once they start manuevering to go after the SM-3, it's going to slow down. Slower than the ASBM warhead. So the ASBM will cross with the SM-3 before the mini-missiles get there. There's going to be nothing "mini" about your missiles especially when they'll have to be able to travel faster than the ASBM warhead to intercept the SM-3.

AssassinsMace said:

Well the ASBM isn't slowing down enough for anything. That's where a lot of its damage comes from is the kinetic energy. Your mini-missiles aren't going to be able to take that stress. When it leaves the ASBM from the internal bay, it's going to be destroyed. Plus your mini-missiles are guided. Meaning, if they survive separation, once they start manuevering to go after the SM-3, it's going to slow down. Slower than the ASBM warhead. So the ASBM will cross with the SM-3 before the mini-missiles get there. There's going to be nothing "mini" about your missiles especially when they'll have to be able to travel faster than the ASBM warhead to intercept the SM-3.

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I have disagree on this.
SM-3 most likely going to shoot down the ASBM either outside of the atmosphere during mid-flight or during the terminal phase when the ASBM already well inside the atmosphere.

I don't think SM-3 would try to shoot it down when ASBM is just entering the atmosphere stage. Entry/Exit of atmosphere is "blind spot". Therefore mini-missile wouldn't launch to counter the SM-3 during the "blind spot" stage.

Second, mini-missiles inside are travling at the at speed as the ASBM initially, but when they are launched, they will accelerate out of the capsule, they will be faster and ahead of the ASBM to meet the SM-3.

The only time when your mini-missiles will be able to travel faster than the ASBM is at the time of launch and ascent. You're not going have mini-missiles traveling faster than the ASBM. If the SM-3 is close enough for that, what's the point of an ASBM? What's the point of the mini-missiles when other defenses will be in play. Really, the mini-missile will have to over-come so many complicated hurdles what's the point? Beside like I mentioned before, if there's the technological capability to make mini-missiles work and survive those conditions, why bother? The high value target is the ship launching the SM-3. I'd rather have the ASBM MIRVed and go after those ships.

AssassinsMace said:

The only time when your mini-missiles will be able to travel faster than the ASBM is at the time of launch and ascent.

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Shouldn't that be descending rather than ascending? The ASBM as a whole is coming down. When mini missile is launched, it's heading downward same direction as the ASBM. I can't imagine the mini-missile can be slower than the ASBM. The ony thing ascending is the SM-3.

AssassinsMace said:

Beside like I mentioned before, if there's the technological capability to make mini-missiles work and survive those conditions, why bother?

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It's already well inside the atmosphere, post-entry stage. So, the mini-missile should be able to function normally.

The ASBM is slower going up than going across or down.

You're forgetting the speed. The ASBM is not traveliing Mach 2. It's travelling a far greater speed. So what "mini" missile or any regular AAM is going to travel faster. You said AShMs were too big. You're mini-missiles are going to have to be big to travel at a greater speed. Once the mini-missile starts maneuvering it's going to slow down. What's the point when the ASBM warhead is travelling faster?

The ASBM will be travelling at a speed that will cause stress and heat. Do you think the mini-missile will survive? And let's not forget how are the mini-missles going to track and target an incoming missile? The AESA radar added to the ASBM? Is it going to deploy a parachute and then do its work. Look at how many complications and how many things have to happen for a mini-missile defense against SM-3s? Look at how big that package on the ASBM has to be aside from the primary warhead. What's the point?

Let me understand something. Do you believe the technology of your mini-missile that will work exist today? And if so, why hasn't anyone done this?