Anti-Carrier Trump Card
- Thread starter Chairman Hu
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bd popeye said:
That's the great liberal invasion of public education for ya. Used to date a girl who was quite normal before going to college, then after being brainwashed by her left-wing liberal professors at school, she graduated to advocating banning of private property ownership and people should rent from the government.
The Vietnam War needs to be evaluated from the respective time period. At the time the communists were expanding, and the Soviets had sent the first man to space. The western world really didn't know if they were going to win in the long-haul, or if the communist ideology would prove superior.
Looking back, we could say the war was unncessary because time has proven the non-competitive communist/socialist economy will crumble and the capitalist, free market system is far superior. But that's an opinion that we have the luxery of making AFTER we had already won the cold war.
The arguement over winning or losing the Vietnam war is mostly irrevelent. Even the Vietnamese government today will admit that the communist economic system is backward and they must reform toward capitalism to prosper.
The Vietnam War was an important lesson that lead to many improvements to the US armed forces and its handling of the media/press. The photo showing children burn by napalm at Trang Bang in 1972 contributed to the push for better, precision guided munitions to avoid hitting civilian targets. And the My Lai massacre and rape of civilians incident lead to better training by the US Army. During the recent actions in Iraq the US commanders would tell their soliders that they expect professional conduct and "no my lais". When confronted with large numbers of Iraqi civilians in a potentially hostile situation, the commander ordered his troops to point their guns down with one knee on the ground. These actions reduced potential civilian deaths and you could say that it's the results of hard lessons from Vietnam.
Another great lesson learned was handling of media/press. The media insertion and laying down the rules - giving Geraldo Rivera the boot for breaking them, was excellent handling of the press.
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Quit discussing about Vietnam war and US internal sosiety...this is CHINESE navy forum!
Us Cvsg
The USN tends to send about 6 CVSGs into a problem area. That doesnt include various surface attack groups and also SSNs and SSGNs. I'll say this, the only US Navy surface combat vessel with no TLAMs is the FFG-7 Perry Class, but it is armed with Harpoons,torperdoes and versions of the SM1 and SM2.
SU27 Pilot, aim high and look towards the SU-30. Better jet, new guts in the aircraft and two seats for assorted bagage(WSO,ECMO,extra food, TV, wife, girlfriend,etc) Plus the PLAAF have some really cool grey paint schemes.
My favorite US Aircraft F/A-18D
Favorite former US Aircraft A-6E and F-14D (MISS THESE BIRDS)
Favorite Non-US Aircraft SU-25 and SU-30MKK
Others
FA-2 Sea Harrier
F-3 Tornado ADV
Rafale
F-111
The USN tends to send about 6 CVSGs into a problem area. That doesnt include various surface attack groups and also SSNs and SSGNs. I'll say this, the only US Navy surface combat vessel with no TLAMs is the FFG-7 Perry Class, but it is armed with Harpoons,torperdoes and versions of the SM1 and SM2.
SU27 Pilot, aim high and look towards the SU-30. Better jet, new guts in the aircraft and two seats for assorted bagage(WSO,ECMO,extra food, TV, wife, girlfriend,etc) Plus the PLAAF have some really cool grey paint schemes.
My favorite US Aircraft F/A-18D
Favorite former US Aircraft A-6E and F-14D (MISS THESE BIRDS)
Favorite Non-US Aircraft SU-25 and SU-30MKK
Others
FA-2 Sea Harrier
F-3 Tornado ADV
Rafale
F-111
bd popeye said:
Thank you Popeye. MIlitarily Vietnam was a clear US victory...politically it was an abject defeat for the U.S. that allowed S. Vietnam to fall, and has reverberated in the area ever since and contributed to the current geo-political situation in the area that is now experiencing the rapid rise of the PRC economically and politically, and the significant buildup of the PLAN.
It will be interesting to see how the relationship between Vietnam and China plays out in these circumstances.
Excuse me?adeptitus said:
Not for the millions of human beings in the area (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.) that suffered and died as a result of the loss of South Vietnam.adeptitus said:
The bottom line is...it happened. The US political heriarchy lost its will and we lost an ally in the process when we did not respond to an abject treaty violation. Those particular ouitcomes reverberate in that particular area to this day, and play on the current geo-political situation. A number of countries, understandably wonder, in the event of any major trouble...will the US be there for the long haul?
To me that is the critical political issue of our time in the region and in the current geo-political circumstance. How the Philippines, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc. ultimately answer that question in their ow mind will determine the future landscape of the entire region.
Raven..according to my son who is on active duty in the USN the Navy wants to eventually get rid of the FFG's and repace them with still more DDG's. Also in the future USN LCS will come into play.
Many USN FFG's are deployed on drug interdiction missions.
As for the orignal topic of an Anti-carrier trump card..Is there really one? Not right now. The best bet the PLAN would have, as I have said before, is the Song class sub. But the USN is working on better methods of decteing these boats with the contracting of a Swedish diesel boat.
bd popeye said:
Or the new Yuan or Kilos.
...and only then if the US Navy happened to run into where they were hiding and waiting. Those diesel electrics are excellent litoral water vessels...but on the high seas east of Taiwn where the CBGs would be operating, they are too slow to keep up with the CBGs and if they tried to go up to any higher speed operations, I believe they would be found and killed IMHO.
So, the USN will have to stay out to sea a good ways, which will work fine for carrier aircraft ops, and they will have to do a heck of a job with ASW subs, vessels, and aircraft, cleaning the path of the CBG of any lurking diesel electrics on the high seas.
That will be the key and I believe the USN will be able to saturate the ASW environment enough in front of the path of the carrier to do so. Do you think such an effort would currently discover the modern diesel electrics?