Anti-Carrier Trump Card

IDonT said:

There are counter measures used to decoy the torpedo. At the speeds the CSG operates, its very unlikely that a SSK can get within firing position.

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the sub dosn't sail towards the cvbg, it waits and lets the cvbg come to it.
it can also use its anti ship missles to attack the carrier.

In addition, I do not believe it is any kind of established fact that AEGIS cannot counter Skyval...it is just believed. The USN is not going to confirm that belief, even if they actually can counter it. They will feel that it is better to leave potential adversaries in doubt and questioning.

or not telling would leave your own people in doubt and give rise to a sense of insecurity. if an advrsary didnt know, they would fire anyways.

MIGleader said:

or not telling would leave your own people in doubt

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Clealry, for those involved, the US forces would know. Those involved would not be left in doubt as to capabilities and any pertinent G2.

Jeff Head said:

Clealry, for those involved, the US forces would know. Those involved would not be left in doubt as to capabilities and any pertinent G2.

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This brings to mind something I posted in the old forum.

Manytimes members of this forum site results of actual "War Games" and joint military excersises as proof of vuanerablities of the US Forces. I tried to point out that in some occasions that the US forces diliberatly loses these games in order to build the confidence of our allies and confuse our foes. I've seen it done more tahn once. And never did the US forces not have superior intelligence on the opposition.

A good poker player knows how to bluff.

bd popeye said:

This brings to mind something I posted in the old forum.

Manytimes members of this forum site results of actual "War Games" and joint military excersises as proof of vuanerablities of the US Forces. I tried to point out that in some occasions that the US forces diliberatly loses these games in order to build the confidence of our allies and confuse our foes. I've seen it done more tahn once. And never did the US forces not have superior intelligence on the opposition.

A good poker player knows how to bluff.

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Ahem so that's a bit like the wargame where the US army lost the Vietnam
war...of course in real life they...ALSO LOST THE WAR !

Btw information about this wargame was revealed LONG AFTER the america
had been defeated..so how can it have been to bluff anyone ?

Ahem so that's a bit like the wargame where the US army lost the Vietnam

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I don't know how this subject popped into the conversation.

Quite frequently a lot of the member post items out of lack of knowledge. I have no idea of what you may have learned..so....

Let me set the record straight.

Unfortunatley history paints the Vietnam war as a defeat for the US Military. Yes the United States was defeated....However
the US Armed Forces was not defeated in Vietnam. It was the policy of the US government reguarding Vietnam that was defeated.

All major US combatant forces had been removed from Vietnam long before the South fell. At no time did the US forces surrender during any major battle with the N. Vietnmese forces. The South fell on April 29,1975. I know. I was there. I was on board the USS Hancock CVA-19.

On January 27, 1973 a peace agreement was signed between the US, S. Veitnamese and N.Vietnamese forces was signed. And all US combat forces widthdrew from S.Vietnam in short order. Only advisors, CIA types and USMC embasy guards remained. There is a link below about the peace agreement. The text is rather long so I did not post. As soon as the US forces had left S.Vietnam the North began it's illeagal incursions into the south in complete violation of the Peace agreement. The US government decided not to assist the S. Vietnamese government any longer because of opposition to the war in the US.

bd popeye said:

On January 27, 1973 a peace agreement was signed between the US, S. Veitnamese and N.Vietnamese forces was signed. And all US combat forces widthdrew from S.Vietnam in short order.

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Well said popeye. US military forces, ground, naval, and air, forced the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table and the peace was made due to what the US military had accomplished. NVA forces were defeated in the South, the VC had ceased to be a major player after Tet, and the North was being bombed into rubble.

After the peace deal was made and we were leaving, the NVA took two years to resupply and get back in order and then they invaded and defeated the S. Vietnamese. The fact that we were a signator to that peace treaty and did little appreciable militarily to stop it was something that makred us amongst other free nations in the area for many years thereafter...and lingers to this day.

But, as you say, the US military did not suffer a military defeat there at all. As you say, it was our political policy and leadership that lost.

Jeff Head said:

Well said popeye. US military forces, ground, naval, and air, forced the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table and the peace was made due to what the US military had accomplished. NVA forces were defeated in the South, the VC had ceased to be a major player after Tet, and the North was being bombed into rubble.

After the peace deal was made and we were leaving, the NVA took two years to resupply and get back in order and then they invaded and defeated the S. Vietnamese. The fact that we were a signator to that peace treaty and did little appreciable militarily to stop it was something that makred us amongst other free nations in the area for many years thereafter...and lingers to this day.

But, as you say, the US military did not suffer a military defeat there at all. As you say, it was our political policy and leadership that lost.

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Thank you Jeff. I once some years ago got booted out of a history class at San Diego City college because I dare mentioned these facts about the Vietnam war in class. The Class was of course teaching some revisionist history of the post WW 2 years.. The longer I was there the more upset I became...So one day i just lashed out..Then was promptly booted out. My behavior was loud but not unexcusable....

A couple of years ago I spoke to some kids at Pt Loma HS in San Diego as a Vietnam vet about this very subject. On that occasion I was allowed to set the record straight.

oh my. i didn't know the u.s had such oppresionist schools. but i guess most americans will not hear their country's bad side only good. the us is not so different from japan after all. things like jap internment, indian internment, the civil rights age, vietnam just seem to fade away into history when the government talks about a "great, free america"