American UFO disclosures

silentlurker said:

Sure, lets not talk about this point anymore.

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And yet, you continue to talk about it:

silentlurker said:

I was more thinking of if there were some way to modify the magnetic permeability of air like how you can change the permittivity of air by ionizing it, but anything is really just wild speculation.

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No. This isn't "wild speculation." Because "speculation" is still based in some understanding of the underlying concept. What you've been doing is just pure nonsense, because you're still not understanding the core concept.

This is despite the fact that I gave you the exact theoretical problem with your idea (which should've been enough for a person so interested in quantitative analysis) plus the fact that Ougah already gave you the actual qualitative answer already.

You can take your magnet to the vacuum of outer space and it still wouldn't make your idea work. The equation I gave you had no considerations for the permeability of anything. It's irrelevant for you, because: EM fields are a short-range phenomenon by nature. This is a massively important theoretical concept in all of physics. This is why your suggestion was always ridiculous, because it is based in a deep misunderstanding of a basic principle.

Now, I suggest that you truly stop talking about this.

silentlurker said:

The steroptic acuity of the human eye is well understood, a standard stereoptic acuity is 20 arcseconds:

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Wow... You've clearly learnt nothing... This time though, you're on your own. I can't help you. Because unlike you, I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about the highly complex field of Optics. I haven't studied Optics, nor do I know anything about all the variables that go into validating the requirements for a fighter pilot's tally. And just because you found a paper online doesn't mean anything. For all you know, you are completely misapplying the concepts yet again. And you would never know, until you actually study the subject you are trying to lecture others in, or a subject matter expert explains it to you in detail.

So again, you should STOP. Seriously.

p.s. Correction of typo: "EM Fields" is too general and includes light, which of course has infinite range. But a resultant magnetic field from a moving charge is indeed a short-range phenomenon, whose strength drops off very quickly, unlike gravity for example, which is very weak, but has very long legs. (This is an example of why you have to be so careful in discussing such topics because the slightest error makes your statement completely invalid.)

Han Patriot said:

They don't need to use UFOs to get more funding mate....they are already using the yellow peril threat. Why risk sounding cuckoo for funding when there are easier methods. OK let's take away the alien element.....let' jsut agree that there are UFOs and they are not American.

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a) China is far behind United States in terms of space exploration, with landing Mars rover Zhurong over 24 years after the Mars Sojourner. Although China is rapidly catching up, it's not considered a true "peer" threat in outer space.

b) China lacks a "Space Force" branch like the new U.S. Space Force. Hard to cry "China Threat" when China doesn't even have a dedicated Space Force branch like US does.

c) UFO's are the perfect enemy to get more funding, it's far more technologically advanced than U.S., it has extra exotic foreign mystic that China/Russia doesn't have, and you don't even need definitive proof of it's existence.

Of course, they will include China/Russia by saying "China and Russia is trying to steal/copy Alien UFO tech, therefore US must win this Space-Weapons Tech Arms Race." or some tricks that Anglos conjure up to expand their military funding.

Han Patriot said:

That's because YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ONE BEFORE.

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Oh right, because every other person who has claimed to "seen" God or Ghosts or Santa Claus or Space Aliens, that is reliable self-reported observations without bias right there.

Phead128 said:

a) China is far behind United States in terms of space exploration, with landing Mars rover Zhurong over 24 years after the Mars Sojourner.

b) China lacks a "Space Force" branch like the new U.S. Space Force.

c) UFO's are the perfect enemy to get more funding, it's far more technologically advanced than U.S., and is far scarier than China/Russia if you spin it with adversarial intent.

Of course, they will include China/Russia by saying "China and Russia is trying to steal/copy Alien UFO tech, therefore US must win this Space-Weapons Tech Arms Race." or some tricks that Anglos conjure up to win more funding.

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China has a space force. It doesn't have fancy badges or uniforms but it does indeed have a 'Space Force'.
China's recent mars landing cannot be compared to the mars landing US did 30 years ago.

While we all can debate about UFOs, aliens etc Simply proclaiming they are there to help US get more funds towards the space force is a bit much. Because the assets US SF have right now in Space won't make a dent on these visitors from far away stars. The UFOs have also not engaged in mass destruction. The reason why UFOs remain a conspiracy rather than an unaddressed threat is because UFOs/beings within have not disturbed human society drastically (if at all). That means the public is not sensitized enough to have strong feelings about the matter.

The Space Forces current existence is based on their need to counter the activities of Russia and China in space.

Xsizor said:

China has a space force. It doesn't have fancy badges or uniforms but it does indeed have a 'Space Force'.
China's recent mars landing cannot be compared to the mars landing US did 30 years ago.

While we all can debate about UFOs, aliens etc Simply proclaiming they are there to help US get more funds towards the space force is a bit much. Because the assets US SF have right now in Space won't make a dent on these visitors from far away stars. The UFOs have also not engaged in mass destruction. The reason why UFOs remain a conspiracy rather than an unaddressed threat is because UFOs/beings within have not disturbed human society drastically (if at all). That means the public is not sensitized enough to have strong feelings about the matter.

The Space Forces current existence is based on their need to counter the activities of Russia and China in space.

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Right now, the new U.S. Space Force has the tiniest budget compared to Navy, Airforce, Army, Marines, or even NASA.

One reason U.S. Space Force has the tiniest budget is because China doesn't have a formal Space Force branch (of course, all activities are merged) and there is no obvious threat in Space Realm from China/Russia. That's about to change with the admission of UFOs.

If you were the new U.S. Space Force, your future vision is Inter-Galactic Battle in the long-term, and Near-Space Dominance in the short-term. You can use UFOs to satisfy both goals, you don't need to evolve UFO-beating technology overnight.

It's about setting up a narrative to justify the existence of new U.S. Space Force and it's long-term vision and funding. It's not like an overnight adventure, suddenly US becomes UFO-defeating, no.

Phead128 said:

How is arguing with alien UFO loonies any different from trying to disprove God's existence to religious folks that cite anecdotal information from unreliable sources with all sorts of mental gymnastics.

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Phead128 said:

There is literally a scientific explanation for a lot of perceived paranormal or extraterrestrial phenomena, JUST BECAUSE we observers cannot find a scientific explanation (yet) does not mean it's some supernatural omnipotent lifeform. It could be an optical illusion caused by a natural scientific event (like drones and planet mishap) or an illusion in the human perception of objects.

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Phead128 said:

Oh right, because every other person who has claimed to "seen" God or Ghosts or Santa Claus or Space Aliens, that is reliable self-reported observations without bias right there.

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You need to stop sneaking in your underhanded strawman impressions of theists and theism. There is such a thing as rational theism that does not contradict physics. I can recommend books written by well-known theoretical physicists on the topic if you're actually interested and aren't simply trying to be argumentative. You can start with Paul Davies' "The Goldilocks Enigma." Either way, stop dragging God into all your posts and indirectly insulting people who believe in His existence.

Budget comparison:

2020:

• U.S Space Force: $40 Million (hahahaha)
• NASA: $22.6 Billion
• U.S. Air Force: $169 Billion

2021:

• U.S Space Force: $15.3 Billion
• NASA: $23.3 Billion
• U.S. Air Force: $153 Billion (Decrease due to transferring $15 Billion to Space Force)

So you can see, U.S. Space Force has even SMALLER budget than NASA, the perennially underfunded agency that space geeks complain about. Interesting, the vast majority of U.S. Space Force increase came directly from the U.S. Air Force budget to maintain budget neutrality, so it seems Air Force got screwed in 2021.

If U.S. Space Force wants more funding (without cannabalizing Air Force budget), it needs the existence of a New "National Security" Threat from UFOs.

Mohsin77 said:

You need to stop sneaking in your underhanded strawman impressions of theists and theism. There is such a thing as rational theism that does not contradict physics. I can recommend books written by well-known theoretical physicists on the topic if you're actually interested and aren't simply trying to be argumentative. You can start with Paul Davies' "The Goldilocks Enigma." Either way, stop dragging God into all your posts and indirectly insulting people who believe in His existence. If you actually want to discuss this topic open another thread.

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Arguing about proof of alien UFO existence is like arguing about proof of God's existence with religious folks. He only appears to chosen/enlightened few, whether he decides to be seen is his own decision, vast technological or supernatural capabilities that our weak feeble minds cannot comprehend, and so many eye-witness accounts that fervently believe what they saw.

Just because it's inconvenient for you to issue a logical or coherent rebuttal doesn't mean I need to stop exercising my freedom of speech or inquiry. You only avoid my basic questions and then dismiss it or tell me to stop talking. You pretend to be engaging in an intellectual honest conversation, but you are not.

Phead128 said:

If you were the new U.S. Space Force, your future vision is Inter-Galactic Battle in the long-term, and Near-Space Dominance in the short-term. You can use UFOs to satisfy both goals, you don't need to evolve UFO-beating technology overnight.

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This is just Sci-fi. Humans don't have the technology or the resources to engage in "Intergalactic Battles".

Not now. Never in the future. Not US or any other country for that matter. Biologically, we are fragile beings. Humans cannot endure environments that show big shifts.

If you are right, it means that US lawmakers are a bunch of idiots who have lost all touch with the reality. The Federal budget is spread thin. 55% of discretionary goes into the military. Just 2% on education. For starters, they'd want to spend more on education so that scientists and engineers can be produced.

All fiction gives away to harsh reality when you consider the limited resources you have. There are more pressing problems

Phead128 said:

Arguing about proof of alien UFO existence is like arguing about proof of God's existence with religious folks.

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Another strawman attack. You're implying all "religious folk" try and prove God's existence. You're also implying that quantitative proof is a requirement for rational theism. Both of these statements are incorrect.

The key requirement here is not to be in contradiction with the laws of physics. That's what makes an idea valid/invalid. As long as what you believe is not contradicting the laws of the universe, it may very well be the correct idea. People who believe in the Multiverse as a way to explain the Fine-Tuning of the universe have zero actual proof that the multiverse exists, and their solution has basically the same explanatory power as simply believing in God.

Phead128 said:

Just because it's inconvenient for you to issue a logical or coherent rebuttal.....

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It's not inconvenient for me at all. I've had this argument countless times before with many people. What I'm telling you (politely again) is to be respectful and not use underhanded and insulting attacks when discussing religion.

It's now reached the Briefing Room.

Just like before. All talk, no substance.