Actually, GE Appliance was bought out by China's Haier.
American Economics Thread
- Thread starter Bernard
- Start date
Actually, GE Appliance was bought out by China's Haier.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
First of all, I just want to say that for something that seems to make you so happy, with so much Trump-fan energy in the number of times you used the word, "fake," I would have thought it to be much more exemplary of American innovation. Instead, the news basically said that the US can't make chips, and after several rounds of negotiations, ended up giving in to foreign demands on the price, and as a result, they finally said they'll get to working promptly. This is even worse than what was previously the story, which is that the US bullied others into giving it their tech for next to nothing.
If this were to happen to China, I would be utterly ashamed. Our pride is in what we can make ourselves, to the highest standards of the world and that's where we're headed. The difference between this approach and what happened between America and TSMC is more than trivial pride; it is essentially the derivative of the phrase, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." In technology, inertia is everything, so being given a technology, even if you master it, is nothing compared to being on the path to developing and advancing the technology, like China is doing. Essentially, being given 5nm chip-making technology means there is no clear path to 3nm chip-making technology. Researching and learning for yourself 90nm tech, then progressing to 45nm, then 28nm, then 14nm, then 7nm, then 5nm essentially means 3nm, 2nm, etc... is right in your future. This is the difference between Chinese innovation and American piracy and foreign reliance. A situation that makes you so happy/proud would be China's shame if it happened to us today.
And that's assuming things actually materialize in 2025. If the news changes and the date constantly goes all over the place, how confident are you that this time it will stay where you want it? Because America gave in and agreed to be milked? You sure that's enough? I think this cow has some more milke to be squeezed out, maybe TSMC does too. Your absolute exuberance at a tentatively set date belies your childish naivity in believing only data that you want to believe.
Nah, can be many ways to interpret that. You give somebody a lot of money, they've got to have something nice to tell you. You don't just take a couple billion dollars and say, "Yeah, this won't solve anything." So after many rounds of negotiations and observation of American/Western culture, they'd learned how it works over there. Make promises to get money, then trickle in the bad news about additional shortfalls and delays and unexpected circumstances until you walk those promises back. It's free money from those desperate to hear promises.
And even if it was bluffing, there's no evidence to say that this is the end and the carrot will be given to the American donkey on time. If they've been bluffing, they can walk back and bluff some more, get more money, stretch things out. What is America gonna do? Ban/sanction them? LOLOL Once this technology is given away, their hand to milk America is significantly weakened. So if you were in a situation where a gangster needs you alive until you give him what he wants, and after you give it, you become disposable, would you give or sell it to him? Or string him along?
Unlike you, I'm not going to commit to a scenerio and call everything else fake just because it's possible and it's what I want. I don't know what happened or what they can do or what they think they can do before encountering new issues. I know to keep watching to see when the chips actually start coming out and whether they are made with sufficient quality and efficiency/quantity. And I also know that it doesn't matter to China because we don't compare Chinese lithography to American lithography or the victory would be too easy and fast; we've always compared Chinese lithography to the best of the world: ASML+TSMC. These are the technologies we will beat. Where they produce does not matter.
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The only thing ShadowStats does is have a +% on their measure. This is why the graphs are identical, but higher.
Is ShadowStats even reliable? I feel like they have been on a, "the government is lying to you" grift for quite a while now.
A 7% inflation rate means aggregate price levels in 2020 should’ve been double what they were in 2010. Someone needs to identify a single price that doubled in the decade.
I think you know its garbage, but this thread in general is unhealthy. Plenty of things to be critical about the U.S. economy, but at worst, it’ll be the second largest economy on Earth maybe 10-20% behind China.
It is true. The US is a continental power with a pretty large population. They have a huge land area. So the idea they would drop from second place is kind of ludicrous to consider. Which nation would replace it in second place? India? Not going to happen in the short term. If ever.
But the idea it would be just slightly behind China is, I think, also overly optimistic. To be frank I thought China would hit limits to growth because of lack of resources or energy before this point. The fact it hasn't and that energy consumption continues to increase at a torrid pace, the population is getting more education, increases in automation, this means the Chinese economy will continue to grow and will reach developed nation status over the next decade. China's efforts in nuclear power and renewables also mean this energy expansion won't need to be done exclusively with coal.
Of course the US will try to kneecap China to prevent that from happening. A China reaching developed nation status would have a much higher GDP than their own because of its higher population. But I think the US is too late in attempting to do this by like a decade.
But the idea it would be just slightly behind China is, I think, also overly optimistic. To be frank I thought China would hit limits to growth because of lack of resources or energy before this point. The fact it hasn't and that energy consumption continues to increase at a torrid pace, the population is getting more education, increases in automation, this means the Chinese economy will continue to grow and will reach developed nation status over the next decade. China's efforts in nuclear power and renewables also mean this energy expansion won't need to be done exclusively with coal.
Of course the US will try to kneecap China to prevent that from happening. A China reaching developed nation status would have a much higher GDP than their own because of its higher population. But I think the US is too late in attempting to do this by like a decade.
China needs to work with Pakistan, Indonesia and Brazil, all of them with big population, in containing the yankees. India is untrustworthy.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
It’s the US. It’s an election year. How long since the Chips Act was passed? Why wait until Biden’s last year start handing out money? Biden has to make it look like the US is back in command to Americans to get votes. You think they just handed billions of dollars to TSMC in one lump sum? Then what happens if Trump wins? He made comments of how Taiwan took away the US semiconductor manufacturing.
Depends on the which date your measuring since that is broadly controlled by the function of 1 - (18(1.05)^x))/(21(1.02)^x)). A few tacit assumptions here about trend growth here.
Capital formation and technological development take time and are cumulative, initial differences in starting conditions (ex., US states in the South vs US states in the North) have persisted for 2+ centuries.
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