American Economics Thread

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeahhhh you don't even know how to read charts... Your own chart puts a 1500 at the 99th percentile with 1440 being the first score to drop to 98th percentile.
This actually contradicts your entire point even more lol that high SAT scores are handed out like candy
America wasn't suffering from its cultural dumbing down in the 90's; it's a very recent trend. 2022-2023 articles:
Educational attainment was substantially lower in the 1990s. Like the “dumbing down” definitely happened simply because people never went to high school. Policy interventions on keeping the most vulnerable students in schools are a work in progress. Them being in school is strictly better than them not being in school.
Totally off topic; why did you cite a legal case?
It’s the best source I’m aware of since plaintiffs in school desegregation cases took effort to assemble that very detailed fact pattern and court cases are pretty easily accessed. The census has never recorded such data afaik and the other federal statistical agencies rarely have time series that goes back before 1970s online.
Just to fill up space and make it look "sophisticated"? Teacher's degrees have nothing to do with course difficulty. The difficulty is not limited by instructor knowledge but by the students' ability to learn and produce passing grades.
I mean, it’s enough to prove the point that education in China is run by people for other people and isn’t the magical utopia you seem to believe it is. You seem to compare to the U.S. to a hypothetical ideal and then take bad faith partisan reporting (and out of context reporting) and then use both as foils. Bad analytical methods, imho.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
This actually contradicts your entire point even more lol that high SAT scores are handed out like candy
1. So you agree; you can't read charts, right? In your own link, 1500 is the 99th percentile, not the 90th? No dispute on that?
2. No, because your chart is not dated. I can only assume it's from a while back. The charts from 2024 here:
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Previously, you have until 1440 to drop into the 98th percentile. Now, 1500 gets you there. Higher scores, easier tests. But then you'd argue that means that kids are smarter, right? No. It's just easier:
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"59% of students who took the old version of SAT said they found the new version easier, while just over half of students who never took the old version of the SAT said they had heard the new version was easier."
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Educational attainment was substantially lower in the 1990s.
I don't care. I'm not talking about the 1990's. Why don't you go back to the 1800's? That could lower the starting point even more for you. LOL I'm talking about current trends; COVID times.
Like the “dumbing down” definitely happened simply because people never went to high school. Policy interventions on keeping the most vulnerable students in schools are a work in progress. Them being in school is strictly better than them not being in school.
Ohhhh so the excuse now is that it's getting easier (you finally admit it) because it's better than leaving stupid kids out LOL Whatever the excuse, education in the US is being dumbed down. "Policy interventions" LOLOL Just call it dumbing down. And the effect is that everyone gets pulled back in order to let the poor performers keep up. That's American style.
It’s the best source I’m aware of since plaintiffs in school desegregation cases took effort to assemble that very detailed fact pattern and court cases are pretty easily accessed. The census has never recorded such data afaik and the other federal statistical agencies rarely have time series that goes back before 1970s online.
It's completely useless. Just say that teachers are getting their degrees. I'm fine with it; never asked for a law to prove it. It's irrelevent to the fact that what they are teaching is being dumbed down.
I mean, it’s enough to prove the point that education in China is run by people for other people and isn’t the magical utopia you seem to believe it is.
Run by people... for other people.... What does that even mean? The principal of the school, the teacher, the board of education runs it for the parents and kids? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? You'd have to be home-schooled for that not to be true. It's enough to prove that Chinese people demand improvement and for their kids to learn more while Americans think that the system should be held back for the laggards, overtime causing more and more people to be content with lagging.
You seem to compare to the U.S. to a hypothetical ideal and then take bad faith partisan reporting (and out of context reporting) and then use both as foils. Bad analytical methods, imho.
It's not a hypothetical ideal; it's China. It's the real ideal.

Your opinion? LOLOL The same opinion that thinks that increasing teen suicides is good because that leads to a high income society? The same opinion that first says US low savings rate signifies trust in a strong economy but an increase in savings also signifies a strong economy? LOL Don't be too offended if not too many people put weight in that "humble opinion."
Homicides and homelessness are not at all time highs; depression is from greater measurement and awareness, mass shootings and suicides are both from widespread firearms availability and are rare in any event
Rare... compared to what? An active war zone?
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chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
1. So you agree; you can't read charts, right? In your own link, 1500 is the 99th percentile, not the 90th? No dispute on that?
Yeah; I went off of memory the first time and got the percentiles wrong. Whoops. Your entire point is wrong however that high SAT scores are handed out like candy. The SAT getting “easier” or “harder” is also more or less impossible to measure (you have massive selection biases with people who voluntarily take the test again), and it’s also norms-referenced which makes it mostly all moot in any case.
I don't care. I'm not talking about the 1990's. Why don't you go back to the 1800's? That could lower the starting point even more for you. LOL I'm talking about current trends; COVID times.
If your entire point is that educational performance declined during COVID, of course it did. Turns out COVID was disruptive.
Ohhhh so the excuse now is that it's getting easier (you finally admit it) because it's better than leaving stupid kids out LOL Whatever the excuse, education in the US is being dumbed down. "Policy interventions" LOLOL Just call it dumbing down. And the effect is that everyone gets pulled back in order to let the poor performers keep up. That's American style.
Except it’s not. The educational system has gotten substantially more stratified but educational achievement has deepened for everyone as well as previously cited - substantial increases in course taking in physics/chemistry/calculus.

“Overall, teens (ages 15 to 17) spend an hour a day, on average, doing homework during the school year, up from 44 minutes a day about a decade ago and 30 minutes in the mid-1990” -
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It's completely useless. Just say that teachers are getting their degrees. I'm fine with it; never asked for a law to prove it. It's irrelevent to the fact that what they are teaching is being dumbed down.
People with more education are more competent since education builds human capital. It would naturally follow that teachers with vachelors
It's not a hypothetical ideal; it's China. It's the real ideal.
1 in 20 (5%) of students in China don’t complete middle school but sure -
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fwiw, the point on the savings rate is that the low savings rate (but not zero) is largely a function of consumer confidence and that the paycheck to paycheck meme is false. Households save - mostly not in transaction accounts, but they still have savings there

You seem to be oddly resistant to the idea that educational attainment and performance has increased with the U.S. over time.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Yeah; I went off of memory the first time and got the percentiles wrong.
Yeah that would have been an acceptable excuse... had you not posted the link with the chart you were referencing...
Whoops, you forgot you posted a chart when making the excuse, didn't you?
Your entire point is wrong however that high SAT scores are handed out like candy.
Wrong? That just shows once again that you can't read charts. There were 2 charts comparing old SAT scores and new ones. What do the charts show? Come on; you got your education before the dumbing down, right? If you really try hard, you can still read a chart, right?
The SAT getting “easier” or “harder” is also more or less impossible to measure (you have massive selection biases with people who voluntarily take the test again), and it’s also norms-referenced which makes it mostly all moot in any case.
LOLOLOL When everyone says they're easier and data shows that high scores are markedly more common, you suddenly go to the "Oh, there's no way to really tell. How can anyone be sure about ease? It's moot; let's just move on." LOLOL
If your entire point is that educational performance declined during COVID, of course it did. Turns out COVID was disruptive.
First of all, the first marked dumbing down of the SATs was in 2016, long before COVID. Secondly, it goes way beyond that. I don't know if it was COVID or just coincided with COVID but the recent culture of American education is to slow everything down until everyone passes. And that trend continues long past COVID and strengthens more and more. If a kid fails, it's everyone else's fault now.
Except it’s not.
Except you can't read charts so how would you know?
The educational system has gotten substantially more stratified but educational achievement has deepened for everyone as well as previously cited - substantial increases in course taking in physics/chemistry/calculus.
Pretty fancy way of saying the SATs got dumbed down, colleges are considering not even using SATs because that makes kids feel stupid, graduation requirements got dumbed down, Ds and Fs are now pass/did not pass (can't use fail, cus that might hurt someone's feelings), American kids are terrible at international education rankings... oh! And all the "Americans" that do compete well are actually Chinese. You got fancy words but they don't get backed up by substance... how so very American LOL
“Overall, teens (ages 15 to 17) spend an hour a day, on average, doing homework during the school year, up from 44 minutes a day about a decade ago and 30 minutes in the mid-1990” -
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Love the 90's dontcha? How old are you that you seem to always bring up the 90's in a modern trends debate? LOL Sorry man, if your standard is as low as, "We're better than we were in the 90's," then America's got no business in a modern competition against China.
People with more education are more competent since education builds human capital. It would naturally follow that teachers with vachelors
Are you familiar with the term "bottleneck?" It means that improving an area that is not your limiting factor, such as teacher education, cannot mitigate problems that are your limiting factor, like cultural trends telling American kids that they're perfect the way they are and if they're failing then that means that instead the school is failing.
1 in 20 (5%) of students in China don’t complete middle school but sure -
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hat's what you got from reading that?? China, a country embroiled in poverty that couldn't produce so much as a truck in the 80's, now has about as many students as the entire population of the US, with every metric improving, and you think a 5% drop out rate in middle school is the take-away?

Do you know how many STEM students China produces per capita? How about the US? As low as American numbers are, don't forget to deduct the number of foreign (AKA Chinese) students. (Cus honestly if you're graduating useless things like arts and communications majors, you might as well just put them to work right out of middle school.) What's the middle school drop out rate in the US, a supposedly far more developed country? Go check it out.
fwiw, the point on the savings rate is that the low savings rate (but not zero) is largely a function of consumer confidence and that the paycheck to paycheck meme is false. Households save - mostly not in transaction accounts, but they still have savings there
So according to your logic, when the US economy is strong, would you see an increase or decrease in savings? Because it seems to me you want to say that both increase and decrease signal strength. That's not "analysis"; that's called spinning.
You seem to be oddly resistant to the idea that educational attainment and performance has increased with the U.S. over time.
Over what time? Since the 90's? LOL Sure, was never talking about that. Since recent years, nope, you're the only one with the odd resistance here. We all know that America's tests, educational requirments, etc... are all dropping to accomodate failure.
 
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chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is a fairly deep literature on how partisanship is very stable and changes the media environment that people live in and are exposed to. Consumer sentiment (as measured by survey responses) seems to be part of the partisan cachet since it’s now self-identified partisanship that better predicts consumer sentiment than macroeconomic variables.

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