American Economics Thread

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Households living paycheck to paycheck is a function of poor survey design and inconsistent standards, especially when household balance sheets are strong

It has little to do with survey design. Fact is, Americans have a poor cultural history of personal savings.

Though notably, people do draw a distinction between "saving" and "investing." Most middle-class Americans will have some form of "investments" like a 401(k) or a 403(b), individual IRAs, other forms of pensions, etc. While I would consider this to be a form of savings, these reserves are typically the last to be drained. "Savings" are typically cash savings, or some other form of liquid assets.

But living paycheck to paycheck isn't necessarily the implication that you have no savings of any kind. Rather, the concept is more about how little wiggle-room there is in standard household budgets. However, I would argue that tight budgets are a function of poor fiscal discipline, rather than "difficulty". Americans love to moan about how hard life is (and indeed, it's not easy), but most Americans have never been outside of the country, or have any idea how hard life is in other countries.
 

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
It has little to do with survey design. Fact is, Americans have a poor cultural history of personal savings.
Americans don’t need to save. This is what the consumption smoothing hypothesis would predict: increases in permanent income lead to a permanent increase in consumption. Unemployment for white collar workers is rare, and health/disability risks are insurable - so what’s the need for precautionary savings? But what I mean by survey design is that “paycheck to paycheck” is a vague term that survey authors don’t elaborate on: is “paycheck to paycheck” no change in transaction account balances? No change in net worth? Liking payday? Etc etc

"Savings" are typically cash savings, or some other form of liquid assets.
Yes. Savings has a vernacular meaning to mean cash in transaction accounts and the standard economic meaning of deferred consumption. Equity investments are savings. End of story.
But living paycheck to paycheck isn't necessarily the implication that you have no savings of any kind. Rather, the concept is more about how little wiggle-room there is in standard household budgets. However, I would argue that tight budgets are a function of poor fiscal discipline, rather than "difficulty".
Eh. Households are profligate but that’s completely rational. Especially when this “paycheck to paycheck” meme includes 401(k) contributions as an expense item instead of correctly recording it as savings.
Americans love to moan about how hard life is (and indeed, it's not easy), but most Americans have never been outside of the country, or have any idea how hard life is in other countries.
Correct. Expectations and desires expand more rapidly than incomes (
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Americans don’t need to save. This is what the consumption smoothing hypothesis would predict: increases in permanent income lead to a permanent increase in consumption. Unemployment for white collar workers is rare, and health/disability risks are insurable - so what’s the need for precautionary savings?

Your mother never taught you to save money?


Yes. Savings has a vernacular meaning to mean cash in transaction accounts and the standard economic meaning of deferred consumption. Equity investments are savings. End of story.

Eh. Households are profligate but that’s completely rational. Especially when this “paycheck to paycheck” meme includes 401(k) contributions as an expense item instead of correctly recording it as savings.

Correct. Expectations and desires expand more rapidly than incomes (
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Not sure why you're replying when you're really just agreeing.

Like I said, American disposition to live "paycheck-to-paycheck" is simply a reflection of cultural habits to not have cash savings. Conversely, you'll find many immigrants do maintain high cash reserves precisely because of their cultural propensity to save and distrust of financial institutions...
 

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Your mother never taught you to save money?
No, not really.
Not sure why you're replying when you're really just agreeing.
Was elaborating
Conversely, you'll find many immigrants do maintain high cash reserves precisely because of their cultural propensity to save and distrust of financial institutions...
The “culture” variable should be fleshed out more. It’s both the inherent uncertainty of their immigration statutes, and having living memory of historical tragedy/poverty. The U.S. has grown consistently for 2+ centuries and living memories of the Great Depression are quite literally dead and dying. It’s just not applicable in a U.S. context
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
1. Time to pile on. This post reveals more about you the poster, than the situation on the ground. You are not an American, and I doubt you have been to America, or know very much about America.

2. If you actually are an American, then you are just trolling.

3. This is America, of poor people, who have to pay rent, then pay for gas and fix the car, then put food on the table. The poor have no savings. If someone is paying off their mortgage, they are living paycheck to paycheck as well. Mortgage payments are expensive, but at least they are building equity into their house with a mortgage on it, but that is still living paycheck to paycheck.

Living paycheck to paycheck, is not some technical phrase, this is the experience of life, for too many people. That is where that expression came from, "I am living paycheck to paycheck," because that was how they were living. They had no money until they get paid.

Why do we think there are so many pay-day-loans outfits around?

:oops::p
That dude is A TROLLING JAI HIND, OR WORSE A DEMOCRATIC LEMMING paid for by Dark Brandon's campaign lol
 
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