American Economics Thread

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Virgin "pull yourself by the bootstrap" vs chad "common prosperity".

I think there is some truth in his idea though. Americans do lack personal responsibility. But that is not important. Government management? Laziness? The cause dont matter. What matters is what should be done. Government cannot be everyones nanny but it should look out for people's well being at reasonable level. Or at very least, not actively harm it. It dont have to be give everyone 5 star hotel. It could be fostering a culture of hard work and responsibilty. And ensure a social environment where hard work pays off, thieves are punished.


I mean, Americans are not always lazy. They were up to 80s considered hardworking stereotype. Protestant work ethics and all that. I wondet what changed. It can't be genes. Cultural shift? It gotta be stopped one way or other before social collapse.
Why did China ban stuff like gambling, video game consoles, gacha games for minors, tutoring, micro loans, etc? Because the government doesn't want hidden advantages for the rich and to minimize the opportunity for people to make crippling mistakes.

Is it heavy handed? Well, the neckbeards will cry dictatorship from their miserable Amazon warehouse jobs as they get another paycheck loan to buy legalized marijuana with. They cry SEE SEE PEE OPPRESSION as they gamble virtual sports and meme stocks from their shared studio apartment costing $1700 per month.

But I don't hate the neckbeards. They're a victim of the regime too. They are so propagandized that they don't even know which way is north. They were told to go to college. Get a degree. Even a STEM degree. Is that enough? NO. So they did what they were asked... now what?

The regime gave them a false answer - blame Chinese. Don't blame how they casinofied the economy, set all these traps to fall into, how all the advice of yesterday was mostly to create cheap labor in the target areas. Don't blame the oligarchs. Don't wake up. And lucky for the regime, they're mostly asleep. If they woke up... well, there's a saying: 匹夫发怒,血溅三尺。

Parents in China are thankful that there is extremely low chance for their kids to get caught up by drugs, won't spend their life savings on lootboxes, sports betting or meme stocks, and there is a well defined path to at least mediocrity. Youth in China are glad that the tutoring arms race has a ceasefire.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
I mean, Americans are not always lazy. They were up to 80s considered hardworking stereotype. Protestant work ethics and all that. I wondet what changed. It can't be genes. Cultural shift? It gotta be stopped one way or other before social collapse.
There's definitely been a cultural shift, even amongst the 'core' demographic of WASP americans and it's not just become of the browning of America. Look at films and tv shows from 1982 compared to today or even interviews on the street from back then, it's like comparing eastern europe or russia to america of today- it's that big of a culture shift.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Why did China ban stuff like gambling, video game consoles, gacha games for minors, tutoring, micro loans, etc? Because the government doesn't want hidden advantages for the rich and to minimize the opportunity for people to make crippling mistakes.

Is it heavy handed? Well, the neckbeards will cry dictatorship from their miserable Amazon warehouse jobs as they get another paycheck loan to buy legalized marijuana with. They cry SEE SEE PEE OPPRESSION as they gamble virtual sports and meme stocks from their shared studio apartment costing $1700 per month.

But I don't hate the neckbeards. They're a victim of the regime too. They are so propagandized that they don't even know which way is north. They were told to go to college. Get a degree. Even a STEM degree. Is that enough? NO. So they did what they were asked... now what?

The regime gave them a false answer - blame Chinese. Don't blame how they casinofied the economy, set all these traps to fall into, how all the advice of yesterday was mostly to create cheap labor in the target areas. Don't blame the oligarchs. Don't wake up. And lucky for the regime, they're mostly asleep. If they woke up... well, there's a saying: 匹夫发怒,血溅三尺。

Parents in China are thankful that there is extremely low chance for their kids to get caught up by drugs, won't spend their life savings on lootboxes, sports betting or meme stocks, and there is a well defined path to at least mediocrity. Youth in China are glad that the tutoring arms race has a ceasefire.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant by government responsibility. @manqiangrexue might think I meant dumping more welfare to individuals. I did not mean that. He do have a point Americans have access to more resources despite deterioations. But that is not the real solution. What I really meant these broad social level changes China is doing is what is missing in America, not resources.

Think of government as a harsh dad. If my kid is weak willed, I will discipline him into stronger will. Failing that, I will make sure drugs are unavailable to tempt him. Failing all that, I admit failure as the parent and make sure he dont make other good kids into thugs. Under no circumstance should I dump lots of money into him and spoil him. Nor would I just let him be left alone and cause problems.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
There's definitely been a cultural shift, even amongst the 'core' demographic of WASP americans and it's not just become of the browning of America. Look at films and tv shows from 1982 compared to today or even interviews on the street from back then, it's like comparing eastern europe or russia to america of today- it's that big of a culture shift.
I think the brown latino these days work harder than WASP.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Yes, this is exactly what I meant by government responsibility. @manqiangrexue might think I meant dumping more welfare to individuals. I did not mean that. He do have a point Americans have access to more resources despite deterioations. But that is not the real solution. What I really meant these broad social level changes China is doing is what is missing in America, not resources.

Think of government as a harsh dad. If my kid is weak willed, I will discipline him into stronger will. Failing that, I will make sure drugs are unavailable to tempt him. Failing all that, I admit failure as the parent and make sure he dont make other good kids into thugs. Under no circumstance should I dump lots of money into him and spoil him. Nor would I just let him be left alone and cause problems.
Well people were talking about homeless facilities being too shoddy, giving newly constructed highrises to hobos and third hand cars not being appealing so I naturally thought you guys wanted to give more to the poor. Also, Seige was talking about educated high earners becoming homeless in under a year so I could not take it as anything other than a self-responsibility failure.

But I've said at least twice now that I am in support of a stricter US government that imposes heavy punishments for crimes (ie 10 years labor camp for violent robbery) and criminalizes voluntary homelessness (AKA refusal to carry one's own weight by joining the workforce essentially robbing society by forcing others to pay welfare taxes to keep them alive). Drug distributers get the death sentence for corrupting society just like in China, Singapore, Indonesia, etc... This is the tough dad approach, but the problem is that going this route in the US is like suddenly going tough dad on a 28 year old son. Any politician who suggests these things will get Hitler mustaches drawn over all his posters, wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning an election, and just might need 24 hour police protection of his home.

I previously said that America's governance had failed to instill work ethic and the spirit of responsibility in the American people. Now I think it may be a bigger failure than that because the US spent the last few decades actively demonizing Chinese and Russian/Soviet rule by characterizing the US as the country of total freedom where you can let loose, do anything and not do anything you want. In order to make Chinese Dad and Russian Dad look like assholes when they were actually tough dads, American Dad went way overboard painting himself as the coolest dad ever and that resulted in his kids having no sense of responsibility to self or society and lacking the discipline to be contributing citizens. So that's a hole that the US government has been digging for decades and continues to dig for itself. Tough governance is going to be a revolution... one where the government revolts and beats the people into submission. It's just too deep a hole to get out of.

So that is definitely an aspect of government failure, one that makes otherwise well-to-do people act irrationally, especially relevent to behaviors where people spend money for fun leaving no cushion for emergency. But aside from that, people saying that American poverty is all an institutional failure are analyzing a foreign country through a Chinese lense. If you put your feet on the ground in the toughest parts in the US, if you went to the slums in major cities like Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, etc... and saw these people, heard them tell you that they will slash your tires and scratch your parked car the instant you are gone if you don't pay them to back off, been threatened by a homeless person cursing at you for not giving them money, you will see that these people are beyond normal governance. Not the US, China, any European country, no one can turn them around. Maybe North Korea can straighten them out in a labor camp but if you give them an ounce of freedom, if you let them back out on the street, they will be right back to square one instantaneously.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
I wonder whats the real trick to having the US stock market near an all time high when its clearly obvious things are falling apart in the US. Even hardcore MAGA guys or whatever can see their paycheck etc is getting more worthless each day.
Oh, they have yet to see what's coming.

The fed is 100% gonna lower rates this year, by a lot as well.

And then QE is needed, or else, who is gonna buy US gov bonds (people need to remember, even if US debt doesn't increase, they would still need to cycle trillions of US bonds every year, not to mention it's like that they are gonna be another 3 trillion in deficit in 2024).

Oh, and the exchange rate of the USD is also gonna crash after lowering the rates (the exchange rate rose as they raised rates).

And the above 2 things, are essentially gonna cause another round of inflation in US.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Wait till you get a loaf of this new phenomenon: Cash for Keys. Paying delinquent and squatting tenants from your own house to leave. The comments on this Tiktok video are so overwhelmingly pro TENANT ABUSE that it's boggles my mind. They came up with the line that says: Renting out a house is an INVESTMENT RISKS so if you didn't want to pay out then you should not be in the business of renting out a property you can't afford!! WTF!!

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A Chinese woman found out how useless Canadian law was getting scammed by her tenant.

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Oh I've seen this shit. My wife knows a Chinese guy who runs a sham rental management agency specializing in getting people in China to buy a house in the US with the promise of rental income. They then get completely deliquent fucks to move in and the result is several months of unpaid rent, then cash for keys. But the agency gets paid anyway; I have no idea how they stay in business telling people they will manage your rental property and then bear NO responsibility for when the renter fails to pay. I think it should be on the agency to pay the landlord for their failure. But Chinese people don't bother to file class action on this crap.

I've come to realize from experience that the best way to avoid this situation is to only rent to Chinese/Asian people, preferably but not necessarily students. I don't even do a background check, require a deposit, nothing. Just an interview to see if they're Chinese/Asian and the type of person I like and they're in/out. I've never been stiffed before in my life just going by this one principle. I would rather permanently lose a room in the house than to have to look at someone everyday as they robbed me by staying on my property without my permission because of some absurd law. It's all over and behind me now that I'm married with kids but that's my golden advice for never getting stiffed on rent.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I wonder whats the real trick to having the US stock market near an all time high when it’s clearly obvious things are falling apart in the US. Even hardcore MAGA guys or whatever can see their paycheck etc is getting more worthless each day.

Top 10 percent or less of the people own like 90 percent of stocks. Things are good for them. Now even upper middle class like software devs and mid level management are being harvested like leeks, let alone lower middle class people who work two-three jobs just to keep a roof over their heads.
 

paiemon

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wonder whats the real trick to having the US stock market near an all time high when its clearly obvious things are falling apart in the US. Even hardcore MAGA guys or whatever can see their paycheck etc is getting more worthless each day.
Well, the stock market represents corporate earnings or more precisely, future corporate earnings as I understand it (someone in finance please correct me if mistaken). So corporations can be doing well financially, but the economy can still suck from an average workers standpoint which where we are at with key large companies hitting record earnings driving the market higher but total worker compensation remaining stagnant.
Wait till you get a loaf of this new phenomenon: Cash for Keys. Paying delinquent and squatting tenants from your own house to leave. The comments on this Tiktok video are so overwhelmingly pro TENANT ABUSE that it's boggles my mind. They came up with the line that says: Renting out a house is an INVESTMENT RISKS so if you didn't want to pay out then you should not be in the business of renting out a property you can't afford!! WTF!!

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A Chinese woman found out how useless Canadian law was getting scammed by her tenant.

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So as far as I understand it being from Canada is this is due to the nature of tenant friendly laws where once they are in the home, in order to evict someone w/e the reason they have the right to challenge the eviction by going through the equivalent of a legal tribunal to evaluate the validity, which if upheld means you are out with legally binding notice. Until the challenge is heard though they stay in the property. Now, in many parts of Canada, due to Covid and government incompetence/lack of funding these tribunals are backlogged with cases, where hearings may take up to a year from the time you make you request to evict whereas before it was a month or two tops. So the "Cash for Keys" in this case is not a new thing, landlords have always been able to incentive tenants to voluntarily leave on their own accord rather than waiting for the case to be hard but the tenants leverage in obtaining anything more than a modest sum (month or two of rent) was low because if it was a valid reason (owner or family moving in, etc), the tribunal would make a swift ruling in a few months. The issue now is tenants are all too aware of the backlogs at the tribunal, they can remain the units for a year or more waiting for a hearing from the time the eviction is issued before being required to move out even if the outcome is preordained. Therefore, the lost opportunity cost to the owner whether it be through lost rental income, or disruption to their living arrangements is significant resulting in the tenant obtaining significant leverage to demand higher compensation if they are too vacate early knowing they can run the clock for up to a year (ofc this has consequences to credit ratings, reputation, blacklists, etc). As for investment risk any responsible landlord should be educated on rules/regulations around how/when tenants can be evicted and factor that into their investment as to the potential downsides/costs to be incurred. The problem here is that nobody factored in the legal system for dealing with evictions to be totally broken which is the root cause of the problem as it has led to shift in the balance of power. Now if you don't bother to understand the regulations and want to play hard and fast with your tenants, you will get burned and that's your own stupidity for investing without reading the prospectus.

Whether we agree or not, Canada has more tenant friendly laws because tenants are considered at a disadvantage relative to landlords when it comes to things like evictions (landlords have more resources and power). And for every example of abusive tenants there are plenty of scummy landlords, and thats why these laws exist for the worst-case extremes, as well as the majority non-fuss scenarios. Much of Canada is in the middle of a housing crisis at the moment, rents are high and new places are hard to find if evicted (especially anything remotely "affordable") so tenants are going to use every legal point of leverage they can if they are faced with eviction for reasons other than not paying rent. If landlords should be mad at anyone for screwing up their investments, they should be angry at the government for failing to provide sufficient resources to allow the legal system to move in a swift manner.
 
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