American Economics Thread

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
The American economy is supposed to be in this great shape despite the high inflation and supposedly historically "LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE" yet when anyone peruse around the American social media regardless of platform you'll see, read comments of struggles and hard grind from most of the folks just trying to make ends meet. So despite the rosy painting of the supposed reality it appears that figures don't seem to match the actual living conditions and realities for the majority of the average American people.

This song titled: "Rich Men North of Richmond" written and performed by a southerner (Oliver Anthony) or as the Yankee libs would call, a hill billy. His not a mainstream musician. It was posted on YouTube 5 days ago and as of today has racked up close to 9 million views. ItsThe overwhelming sentiment and comments are exactly as I described above: the folks are working super hard with hardly nothing to show for.

The response from the left/liberals/progressive is entirely predictable. The man's message and song are being dismissed as nothing more than a cry by a right wing nut job and all the usual political mudslinging one can expect in the current American hyper-partisan environment. What a sad state of affair.

The left is 100% correct about this guy. It's incredible to see America sink to the levels of squalor it has yet for there to be no repercussions for the ruling elite other than symbolic gestures like this. Some redneck makes song with the most sanitised, Disney friendly message and it suddenly becomes viral? Liking a music video on youtube isn't going to change anything.

Music has always been an avenue for political protest (think of the Vietnam war), nowadays 99% of music is pro regime. It's the same with the obsession with trans people. Attack the problem, not the symptom of the problem.

The song is shit too.
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
The American economy is supposed to be in this great shape despite the high inflation and supposedly historically "LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE" yet when anyone peruse around the American social media regardless of platform you'll see, read comments of struggles and hard grind from most of the folks just trying to make ends meet. So despite the rosy painting of the supposed reality it appears that figures don't seem to match the actual living conditions and realities for the majority of the average American people.

This song titled: "Rich Men North of Richmond" written and performed by a southerner (Oliver Anthony) or as the Yankee libs would call, a hill billy. His not a mainstream musician. It was posted on YouTube 5 days ago and as of today has racked up close to 9 million views. ItsThe overwhelming sentiment and comments are exactly as I described above: the folks are working super hard with hardly nothing to show for.

The response from the left/liberals/progressive is entirely predictable. The man's message and song are being dismissed as nothing more than a cry by a right wing nut job and all the usual political mudslinging one can expect in the current American hyper-partisan environment. What a sad state of affair.


Realistically the dems are the only party approaching governing with policy objectives. No party is perfect of course, but the GOP has become a disgrace over their worship for Trump.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Realistically the dems are the only party approaching governing with policy objectives. No party is perfect of course, but the GOP has become a disgrace over their worship for Trump.
Trump mishandled covid, yes. Other than that there is no large scale failure. Biden is losing a major war in Europe, did even worse than Trump in covid and trade war, and also managed to destroy the economy in record time.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
The American economy is supposed to be in this great shape despite the high inflation and supposedly historically "LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE" yet when anyone peruse around the American social media regardless of platform you'll see, read comments of struggles and hard grind from most of the folks just trying to make ends meet. So despite the rosy painting of the supposed reality it appears that figures don't seem to match the actual living conditions and realities for the majority of the average American people.

This song titled: "Rich Men North of Richmond" written and performed by a southerner (Oliver Anthony) or as the Yankee libs would call, a hill billy. His not a mainstream musician. It was posted on YouTube 5 days ago and as of today has racked up close to 9 million views. ItsThe overwhelming sentiment and comments are exactly as I described above: the folks are working super hard with hardly nothing to show for.

The response from the left/liberals/progressive is entirely predictable. The man's message and song are being dismissed as nothing more than a cry by a right wing nut job and all the usual political mudslinging one can expect in the current American hyper-partisan environment. What a sad state of affair.


Let's talk about macro economics and growth rates.

An average growth rate of 1% means the economy will double in 100 years, give or take as long as the recessions do not last too long.

At growth of 2% the economy could double in 50 years give or take. That means that is real slow. It will take most of people's working life to see incomes double, if it actually happens at all.

Economies that grow at 1% or 2% tend to find themselves at 0% growth a lot of the time.

Therefore, in my mind, 1% growth = 2% growth = 0% growth or listless growth or economic stagnant.

In contrast, a country growing at 5% probably will double its economy in 15-20 years.

China is doing that internally, and that economic dynamism is bursting out onto other places outside of China. The RECP is a good example.

:oops:

Now this to be a fact of life currently, although I forgot all those the industries or the reason why, but when it comes to real estate, construction, education, health care, and medicine, the cost are always going up.

I forget the reasons why. There are probably very clear answer to why those industries are seeing the cost going up always in the current day.

The FIRE sector has a hold of the real estate and construction, they get their rentier income and pound of flesh. Seems to me the lawyers and patent law seem to allow the pharmaceutical companies to reap that rentier income. In other words, I think the system is rigged.

Now we get the funny part.

As indicated in the first of this part, Western economies are stagnant at 1% growth. What does that means?

It means incomes are stagnant.

But stuff people need, like education, housing, and health care, cost of that all going up.

Stagnant incomes, and rising cost for essentials (excluding food and petroleum products prices there varies).

In short, income is stagnant, and it cost money just to stay alive and that costs more and more every year, while you get a 2% raise, like how far will that go, for bleep sakes.

See, that is how this is so funny. People don't understand it. All they say, is that it is the economy.

That is why they are singing that hilly billy song, made famous on Youtube by singing hilly billy, singing precisely of what we are talking about. At least he did not blame the joos.

What is the health care cost of the Ontario government budget? Isn't it like 30% and growing? That I remember from a decade ago.

Of course, none of this is right or fair, but people just too busy to know any better to go fight and change the system.

Would Doug Ford change anything? He has no clue, he only finished high school! LOL.

That is why it is funny when it isn't.

[rant][/rant]

:rolleyes::p
 

KYli

Brigadier
Trump mishandled covid, yes. Other than that there is no large scale failure. Biden is losing a major war in Europe, did even worse than Trump in covid and trade war, and also managed to destroy the economy in record time.
Nobody did worse than Trump for handling COVID. Biden's handling of COVID is poor but not disaster.

For economy, Trump's signature tax cut didn't spur growth as promised but ended up as another big handout to the rich and corporate. The cost of the tax cut is another surge in deficit. Trump, Biden and the Fed are equally responsible for creating a bubble in both housing and stock market.

For politics, I would give Trump's credit for not entering any needless war during his presidency even though neo-cons were pushing so hard for a war. Trump's trade war is a disaster. From American POV, the trade war and containment of China might be necessary. But Trump was too focus on winning that he lost sight of objectives and at the same time agitated American allies with nothing to show for. Biden's alliance with EU, Japan and SK is more effective in containing China with minimal cost.

For economy, Biden mistake was to add another huge stimulus bill on top of Trump's stimulus and handout for COVID and let alone the Fed already flooded the market with 9 trillion liquidity. Although, that stimulus bill is probably political necessary but it is too big and broad and too many loophole that got taken advantage by fraudsters.

In addition, the Democrat party seemed to push so hard for all types of spending even after inflation has picked up. Understandably, during the Obama's presidency, the stimulus and spending bills were too small to spur growth after the Great Recession but Biden's spending bills were massive on a different level. Biden should be held mostly accountable for the inflation with the exception on the housing and stock market bubble that should be equally blamed on Biden, Trump and the Fed.

Biden's trade war with China is partially successful with the alliance with EU, Japan, and SK. However, his reluctance to end the useless tariff showed that Biden is a weak leader that can't make a tough decision.

Biden played the Taiwan card is a risky move. And flip flop too often that making any attempt to cooling the tension almost impossible. Biden allowed Ukraine crisis to become a hot war between Ukraine and Russia is a reckless move. Even though strategically Biden might think it is a win for the US as EU nations have all been forced to ally much more closely with the US even with China containment issue. Russia was also permanently become a outcast to the EU that Russia can't no longer remain a threat to the US as Russia was forced to drain its resources for the war in Ukraine.

If the war dragged on another few years, I am not sure Russia can count it as a win and the US would say it is a major lost. Moreover, It is doubtful that Russia can muster enough force to conquer all Ukraine or even just Kiev without mobilizing its reserves. I would say the war is a total lost cause for EU and Ukraine but for the US and Russia it is difficult to say.
 

paiemon

Junior Member
Registered Member
The American economy is supposed to be in this great shape despite the high inflation and supposedly historically "LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE" yet when anyone peruse around the American social media regardless of platform you'll see, read comments of struggles and hard grind from most of the folks just trying to make ends meet. So despite the rosy painting of the supposed reality it appears that figures don't seem to match the actual living conditions and realities for the majority of the average American people.

This song titled: "Rich Men North of Richmond" written and performed by a southerner (Oliver Anthony) or as the Yankee libs would call, a hill billy. His not a mainstream musician. It was posted on YouTube 5 days ago and as of today has racked up close to 9 million views. ItsThe overwhelming sentiment and comments are exactly as I described above: the folks are working super hard with hardly nothing to show for.

The response from the left/liberals/progressive is entirely predictable. The man's message and song are being dismissed as nothing more than a cry by a right wing nut job and all the usual political mudslinging one can expect in the current American hyper-partisan environment. What a sad state of affair.

The problem I see for the American economy is that its top-heavy. For the top 25% of income earners, things are pretty rosy even in these times assuming you still have a job. Their share of national wealth has increased, or stayed consistent so from their standpoint things are ok. The issue is with the lower 3 quartiles, who are losing ground at best or more likely drowning at worst. The "low unemployment" rate doesn't take into account factors such as the compensation offered by the jobs, f/t vs p/t, that influence the quality of life and thus the job availability. Personally, imho if a person working a full time job cannot afford basic shelter, food, transportation, etc for themselves that job shouldn't exist since you are basically paying to work and can't improve your life.

I this song hits the nail on the head perfectly, because progressives/liberals are as detached from reality as conservatives are. The HCOL urban areas where progressives tend to congregate are as detached from average american life as the Bund in Shanghai is from average Chinese life. The problem is the vast majority of Americans live outside of those areas, and progressives clustering has caused them to miss the bigger picture. Progressives really need to "touch grass", and go out to talk and experience how average people live without condescending attitudes to understand what is happening around them. Give credit to Trump, although he was only using these people he was able to relate to them, make them feel like he understood their plight. Sadly, the american working and middle classes are being royally screwed and because most americans are struggling to stay afloat daily, there isn't much time or energy for them to be involved in pushing for political change which unfortunately leaves the job to the political partisans leading to the current environment.
Realistically the dems are the only party approaching governing with policy objectives. No party is perfect of course, but the GOP has become a disgrace over their worship for Trump.
Oh the GOP has a party objective, its called owning libs lol.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Nobody did worse than Trump for handling COVID. Biden's handling of COVID is poor but not disaster.

For economy, Trump's signature tax cut didn't spur growth as promised but ended up as another big handout to the rich and corporate. The cost of the tax cut is another surge in deficit. Trump, Biden and the Fed are equally responsible for creating a bubble in both housing and stock market.

For politics, I would give Trump's credit for not entering any needless war during his presidency even though neo-cons were pushing so hard for a war. Trump's trade war is a disaster. From American POV, the trade war and containment of China might be necessary. But Trump was too focus on winning that he lost sight of objectives and at the same time agitated American allies with nothing to show for. Biden's alliance with EU, Japan and SK is more effective in containing China with minimal cost.

For economy, Biden mistake was to add another huge stimulus bill on top of Trump's stimulus and handout for COVID and let alone the Fed already flooded the market with 9 trillion liquidity. Although, that stimulus bill is probably political necessary but it is too big and broad and too many loophole that got taken advantage by fraudsters.

In addition, the Democrat party seemed to push so hard for all types of spending even after inflation has picked up. Understandably, during the Obama's presidency, the stimulus and spending bills were too small to spur growth after the Great Recession but Biden's spending bills were massive on a different level. Biden should be held mostly accountable for the inflation with the exception on the housing and stock market bubble that should be equally blamed on Biden, Trump and the Fed.

Biden's trade war with China is partially successful with the alliance with EU, Japan, and SK. However, his reluctance to end the useless tariff showed that Biden is a weak leader that can't make a tough decision.

Biden played the Taiwan card is a risky move. And flip flop too often that making any attempt to cooling the tension almost impossible. Biden allowed Ukraine crisis to become a hot war between Ukraine and Russia is a reckless move. Even though strategically Biden might think it is a win for the US as EU nations have all been forced to ally much more closely with the US even with China containment issue. Russia was also permanently become a outcast to the EU that Russia can't no longer remain a threat to the US as Russia was forced to drain its resources for the war in Ukraine.

If the war dragged on another few years, I am not sure Russia can count it as a win and the US would say it is a major lost. Moreover, It is doubtful that Russia can muster enough force to conquer all Ukraine or even just Kiev without mobilizing its reserves. I would say the war is a total lost cause for EU and Ukraine but for the US and Russia it is difficult to say.
Trump did not win the trade war, but it was not a disaster either. At very least Huawei was caught off guard, and American business did not fall apart during first phase. Meanwhile Biden's chip war was a total farce. There is no element of surprise, there was no damage to China. American chip company did however suffer major set back. If you paid attention to tech company like AMD during this time you would know. Dragging vassals more succesfully than Trump is not a win. The end result is said vassal lose together with US harder than the Trump's phase of trade war. In short, Trump slowed down his trade war when he see himself not winning. Biden doubled down on that. You will see a lot of the same pattern. Whatever economically bad done by Trump, Biden is doing it twice as hard.

It is pretty amazing, but Biden is going up there as one of worst president ever on the same tier as Hoover. He makes Trump look smart.

On Ukraine war, it is perhaps the biggest failure of Biden. It may not be a win for Russia, but pushing Russia firmly into Chinese side is terrible trade over consolidating grip on EU, when EU is already a vassal. Security aside, it is accelerating dedollarize when Russia adopt Chinese payment system. Making petro yuan happening by alienating Saudi Arabia is another geopolitical mistake with major economic consequences.
 
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KYli

Brigadier
Trump did not win the trade war, but it was not a disaster either. At very least Huawei was caught off guard, and American business did not fall apart during first phase. Meanwhile Biden's chip war was a total farce. There is no element of surprise, there was no damage to China. American chip company did however suffer major set back. If you paid attention to tech company like AMD during this time you would know. Dragging vassals more succesfully than Trump is not a win. The end result is said vassal lose together with US harder than the Trump's phase of trade war. In short, Trump slowed down his trade war when he see himself not winning. Biden doubled down on that. You will see a lot of the same pattern. Whatever economically bad done by Trump, Biden is doing it twice as hard.

It is pretty amazing, but Biden is going up there as one of worst president ever on the same tier as Hoover. He makes Trump look smart.

On Ukraine war, it is perhaps the biggest failure of Biden. It may not be a win for Russia, but pushing Russia firmly into Chinese side is terrible trade over consolidating grip on EU, when EU is already a vassal. Security aside, it is accelerating dedollarize when Russia adopt Chinese payment system. Making petro yuan happening by alienating Saudi Arabia is another geopolitical mistake with major economic consequences.
Chinese massive expansion of chips factories have been slowed down and disrupted. A few of more advanced chips plants were put on hold waiting for domestic alternatives. YMTC would have already doubled and tripled its capacity without the sanctions. I do think Biden's chip war did hurt China but it also forced China to accelerate self reliance push.

Biden more or less is willing to hurt American companies in order to slow down China's advance in chips. However, the political environment in the US and pressure from both parties have ensured that the US would double down with or without Biden. I am more inclined to think that there are political consensus among all major interest groups in the US to contain China no matter what the price.

Russia's realignment with China is a major win for China. However, a protracted conflict in EU that forced EU nations to be completely rely on the US is still a win. Furthermore, German has been significantly weakened both politically and economically which is another win for the US. Russia is also weakened politically and militarily especially as Russia is no longer viewed as a world military power from many global south nations. I don't think the war is a big failure for Biden.

However, the US and EU abused of international financial system and confiscated Russian assets and misused extra territorial jurisdiction which is the biggest mistake and failure of the Biden's administration. Dedollarization and the weakened of the Western controlled financial system would have serious consequences and a huge strategical mistake as many global south nations have lost faith in the West.

Biden would be viewed very negative for triggering the downfall of the mighty dollar.
 
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