AL-31F / FN in China and background

Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

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Hendrik_2000 said:
Ok let do rough unscientific calc. China has bought roughly 200 SU 27 and another 100 SU 27 MKK add to that the 100 J11A built using AL31F engine So total roughly 350 to 400 SU series of plane multiply by 2 Total 700 engine
The old one has been operating since 1985 The latest one was received around 2000 So just make it simple average it 1985+15/2=1992. Now it is 2016 So they have been operating for 18 or 20 years . Or 1000 weeks.That is a lot of mileage. Since the lifetime of AL31 Engine is around 1500 hr

That translate into roughly 1.5 hr per week flying time or 3 X 30 min sorties per week which is reasonable
So those engine need to be replaced by now

Now using your number which is on higher side 1100-700 that only 400 left subtract that about 300 use for J 10 engine Not much
left!
Anyone has better number or better methodology please comment
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The 1st Su-27SK entered PLAAF in 1992. The Su-27SK was 1st demoed to the PLAAF early 1991. The last Su-27UBK deal was signed end of 1999.

Total Su-27SK/UBK would be 78 (36 SK, 40 UBK)
Total Su-30MKK would be 100 (76 MKK, 24 MK2). (there is no such fighter called SU 27 MKK)
Total J-11/11A licence was for 200 but halted after 105.

So the total number of flankers requiring AL-31F is less that 300 (~283 excluding attrition). At least some or maybe all of the Su-27SK were scrapped and engines cannibalized when the J-11B (WS-10) faced problems in 2007. The 1st batch of 20 J-11B had to be re-engined with AL-31F. The problems are now solved but at least some of the Su-27SK have been scrapped. There were images of the scrapped plane being transported. And, unlike the Su-27UBK, the Su-27SK are not R-77 compatible and there is no upgrade path for the old Su-27SK. Even the J-8F is PL-12 compatible. So it is likely the the total AL-31F powered flanker fleet is around 250.
 
Deino

Deino

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Just an idea after the latest J-10C block 3 were spotted, a problem right now is: With these numbers of all J-10B and Cs known and even assuming the J-20 is using the same engine, there are way more fighters operational than engines purchased; at least confirmed.

Any idea, what's the officially confirmed number of AL-31FN series 3 ordered and delivered?



This was the older regular FN.
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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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Deino said:
Just an idea after the latest J-10C block 3 were spotted, a problem right now is: With these numbers of all J-10B and Cs known and even assuming the J-20 is using the same engine, there are way more fighters operational than engines purchased; at least confirmed.

Any idea, what's the officially confirmed number of AL-31FN series 3 ordered and delivered?



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Indirect proof that China has reverse engineered the engine like Yankeesama claimed?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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Deino said:
I slowly think it has some points...
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He called the engines used by the J-20 "philosophical domestic engines".

The question remains: is WS-10 relevant for the J-20 if China could reliably reverse engineer the AL series?
 
Deino

Deino

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What is the number of confirmed series 3 engines purchased by China?
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

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gelgoog said:
This article is really old, from 2011, but it is really exhaustive. I don't remember reading it before.
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It is an old article full of bias and denigrating comment on Chinese engine development It was free at one time than they converted it to subscription based No one interested in reading it finally it fold down and closed the site

I will add a gob of salt on anything that Gabe Collin and Andrew Ericksson wrote. He now stop writing on anything Chinese military concentrating on grey zone or sea militia
 
T

Totoro

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I found the article quite well written. Especially with hindsight of these 8 years that have passed since, it's two main predictions seem well meausred. Even optimistic a bit.

They predicted 2013-2014 as the moment when Chinese engines would see wide use. Assuming they meant just ws10, they were more or less correct. Perhaps it happened with flankers s bit earlier but it still hasn't happened with j10...

And the article said 2016 to 2021 would see successful design of engine for 5th gen plane. To date that hasn't happened. It's not actually looking likely ws15 will be ready to use on operational planes by 2021 so that prediction may have been optimistic by a few years. We will see.
 
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