Ahem J-16.
AL-31F / FN in China and background
- Thread starter Hyperwarp
- Start date
Ahem J-16.
I misinterpreted MIG-29's quote. I thought that he meant WS-10 is not reliable but that wasn't his original intent.
Just to clear up what seems to be a little confusion about Saturn and Salyut and how they relate to each other -
In Soviet times, there was Lyulka, the OKB (design bureau), who designed engines. These were then turned over to state factories for production. There was no direct relation between the design bureaus and the factories, production was centrally assigned. 'The two factories building AL-31F in the Soviet era were Salyut in Moscow and Ufa-based UMPO. Initially Salyut built all the difficult 'hot' sections and Ufa the cold sections but eventually both factories built full engines.
Salyut factory had traditionally built Lyulka engines from AL-7F onwards and were heavily involved in productionising AL-31F. UMPO previously built Tumansky engines up to the R29B-300 (MiG-27) but switched to AL-31F production in the early 1980s.
In the post-Soviet era, former Lyulka OKB and UMPO factory (along with some other enterprises) merged became NPO Saturn. Salyut factory joined with some other engine enterprises into a rival block. This left Salyut allowed to build the existing AL-31F design, but Saturn naturally wanted to build their own designs at their UMPO factory, which put Salyut in a tricky situation with advanced versions of the AL-31F. They've argued only Saturn has the rights to design new AL-31F derivatives.
In response, Salyut set up an in-house design bureau (and an engineering school for students) to design their own upgraded AL-31F versions with their own "IP" rights.
Each AL-31F factory had its own customers, with India buying from UMPO and China from Salyut. Russia has mostly bought new AL-31F derivative engines (117S, 117) from Saturn, though the Su-34 is using the Salyut AL-31FM1. Saturn won the contract for the Su-57 engines, both interim and definitive.
Salyut built the customised AL-31FN for China. Russian reports indicate Salyut have also supplied advanced AL-31FM2 engines to China for J-20. It's possible their more advanced engine proposals could lead to further improved engines.
Reports of Chinese investment in Salyut are interesting. It would be interesting to see if Salyut are helping out on WS-15. China will have access to the Saturn 117S engine via their Su-35 purchase...
In Soviet times, there was Lyulka, the OKB (design bureau), who designed engines. These were then turned over to state factories for production. There was no direct relation between the design bureaus and the factories, production was centrally assigned. 'The two factories building AL-31F in the Soviet era were Salyut in Moscow and Ufa-based UMPO. Initially Salyut built all the difficult 'hot' sections and Ufa the cold sections but eventually both factories built full engines.
Salyut factory had traditionally built Lyulka engines from AL-7F onwards and were heavily involved in productionising AL-31F. UMPO previously built Tumansky engines up to the R29B-300 (MiG-27) but switched to AL-31F production in the early 1980s.
In the post-Soviet era, former Lyulka OKB and UMPO factory (along with some other enterprises) merged became NPO Saturn. Salyut factory joined with some other engine enterprises into a rival block. This left Salyut allowed to build the existing AL-31F design, but Saturn naturally wanted to build their own designs at their UMPO factory, which put Salyut in a tricky situation with advanced versions of the AL-31F. They've argued only Saturn has the rights to design new AL-31F derivatives.
In response, Salyut set up an in-house design bureau (and an engineering school for students) to design their own upgraded AL-31F versions with their own "IP" rights.
Each AL-31F factory had its own customers, with India buying from UMPO and China from Salyut. Russia has mostly bought new AL-31F derivative engines (117S, 117) from Saturn, though the Su-34 is using the Salyut AL-31FM1. Saturn won the contract for the Su-57 engines, both interim and definitive.
Salyut built the customised AL-31FN for China. Russian reports indicate Salyut have also supplied advanced AL-31FM2 engines to China for J-20. It's possible their more advanced engine proposals could lead to further improved engines.
Reports of Chinese investment in Salyut are interesting. It would be interesting to see if Salyut are helping out on WS-15. China will have access to the Saturn 117S engine via their Su-35 purchase...