Aircraft Carriers

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bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Obi Wan Russell said:
I'm curious about the JFK being offered to NATO, in what capacity? As a target ship? For transfer to one of the member nations navies? For use as a floating command ship? By all accounts refitting her for further service would be astronomically expensive for a limited return on the investment compared to building a new vessel (eg a CVF). Likewise, just what would the Department of Homeland Security want with a non operational aircraft carrier (or even an operational one for that matter)? I wasn't aware the DHS had a fleet of naval aircraft in need of deployment overseas...
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I think there was talk of NATO using her in some sort of commando role. As for a full re-fit the USN estimated the cost of a full SLEP for the JFK at at least $2 BILLION USD. That's not chump change my friend.

What DHS would do with the ship is beyond me.. I think the USN was required by law to offer the ship to NATO and DHS.

I served on the JFK in '72 & '73. At that time she was the finest carrier in the fleet. The ship was only 4 years old at that time and in full operational condition. She was immaculate.

Personally as a former USN sailor it is dispicable how the USN let the ship slip into such a condition that it cannot operate fixed wing aircraft. An absoulte embarrasment.
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
"Use it, then abandon it"- I'm sure that if there weren't new carriers being build JFK would have been kept in good shape. I also think that she was homeported in FL as a training carrier (doing operational deployments regardless) bacause they already decided that she wasn't worth TLC anymore. Theoreticaly the CG (part of DHs) could use her as a helo carrier/disaster relief command ship, or the Army/AF as SOF/SAR helo platform- but since both are part of the "trouway society" it won't happen. I bet she'll be used for parts, unless sold to India or Australia!
 
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Finn McCool

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
bd popeye said:
I think there was talk of NATO using her in some sort of commando role. As for a full re-fit the USN estimated the cost of a full SLEP for the JFK at at least $2 BILLION USD. That's not chump change my friend.

What DHS would do with the ship is beyond me.. I think the USN was required by law to offer the ship to NATO and DHS.

I served on the JFK in '72 & '73. At that time she was the finest carrier in the fleet. The ship was only 4 years old at that time and in full operational condition. She was immaculate.

Personally as a former USN sailor it is dispicable how the USN let the ship slip into such a condition that it cannot operate fixed wing aircraft. An absoulte embarrasment.
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Well, all ships live have to end eventually. I'm sure the JFK had several more years in her but it just isn't necessary with new carriers coming online. Now the thing is just a floating enviromental hazard. I hope they don't just sink her.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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Finn McCool said:
Well, all ships live have to end eventually. I'm sure the JFK had several more years in her but it just isn't necessary with new carriers coming online. Now the thing is just a floating enviromental hazard. I hope they don't just sink her.
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Finn, Before the USN scraps or sinks a ship it is inspected by the EPAA to make sure it is enviromentally safe. It cost the USN $43 million USD total to enviormentally prepare the carriers America and Oriskany for sinking.

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B

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
It brings to mind the story of
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for scrap and then
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for the asbestos! I wonder why China (which is less concerned about hazmat) didn't snach her- they could cut her up for useful parts, training & design study!
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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BLUEJACKET said:
It brings to mind the story of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for scrap and then
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for the asbestos! I wonder why China (which is less concerned about hazmat) didn't snach her- they could cut her up for useful parts, training & design study!
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Yea what a fiasco that situation is..the PRC did not buy the ship because it was ;
1) Not for sale to China
2) The US would not have like to seen it in the hands of the PLAN..espically if certian systems were still in tact..such as the catapults.
 
Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

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bd popeye said:
Yea what a fiasco that situation is..the PRC did not buy the ship because it was ;
1) Not for sale to China
2) The US would not have like to seen it in the hands of the PLAN..espically if certian systems were still in tact..such as the catapults.
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I'd heard the French did offer the Clemenceau to the PLAN for next to nothing... on condition that it was refitted in a French yard. China turned them down, most likely because the ship would be limited as to what aircraft could be operated. Her catapults were British BS-5s, the same as fitted in the bow position on Ark Royal and Eagle, so although the US might not have liked to see them go to China, there isn't much they could do to stop them. We all know how much the French Government likes to show it's independence from America, so apart from embargoing parts for CDGs catapults I don't see how the USA could have stopped the sale. The Chinese would not have learnt anything more from Clemenceau than they did from Melbourne, as the flight deck technology was very similar.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Obi Wan Russell said:
I'd heard the French did offer the Clemenceau to the PLAN for next to nothing... on condition that it was refitted in a French yard. China turned them down, most likely because the ship would be limited as to what aircraft could be operated. Her catapults were British BS-5s, the same as fitted in the bow position on Ark Royal and Eagle, so although the US might not have liked to see them go to China, there isn't much they could do to stop them. We all know how much the French Government likes to show it's independence from America, so apart from embargoing parts for CDGs catapults I don't see how the USA could have stopped the sale. The Chinese would not have learnt anything more from Clemenceau than they did from Melbourne, as the flight deck technology was very similar.
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I learn something new everyday.:eek: I wonder why the PLAN really turned down the Clemenceau? Were they really afraid of a down graded ship? Or were they fearful they could not operate the ship?

I swear I read the ships catapults were the C-13 types. Same as the USN. I know the FN R91 has C-13 type catapults...
 
Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

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As regards the Clemenceau in PLAN service, what aircraft would she have operated? Unless the sale included an order for Super Etendards and Alize ASW/AEW planes (older types less likely to be embargoed than the Rafale) the chinese would have had to navalise an existing type, and to the best of my knowledge all the PLAAF types are too big and too heavy for Clemenceaus' catapults; remember the BS5 was only 155ft long, not 300ft like a C13. Melbournes' catapult was an even shorter BS4, 120-130ft and unsuitable for anything bigger than an A-4 Skyhawk. Also the Chinese probably didn't like the idea of the ship being re activated in a French Yard, where the whole world would be able to monitor it's progress. We all know how the Chinese love their secrecy.
 
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