Aircraft Carriers

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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Obi Wan Russell said:
As regards the Clemenceau in PLAN service, what aircraft would she have operated? Unless the sale included an order for Super Etendards and Alize ASW/AEW planes (older types less likely to be embargoed than the Rafale) the chinese would have had to navalise an existing type, and to the best of my knowledge all the PLAAF types are too big and too heavy for Clemenceaus' catapults;.. Also the Chinese probably didn't like the idea of the ship being re activated in a French Yard, where the whole world would be able to monitor it's progress. We all know how the Chinese love their secrecy.
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Secrecy is a must for them, since for the last ~200 years they were at the short end of the stick...
IMO there are some other reasons for not buying her, since they could fit a bow ramp and remove the useless catapult! I wonder, even if that sale did happen, how the French were going to circimvent the arms embargo- didn't it include CVs too?
 
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Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

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BLUEJACKET said:
Secrecy is a must for them, since for the last ~200 years they were at the short end of the stick...
IMO there are some other reasons for not buying her, since they could fit a bow ramp and remove the useless catapult! I wonder, even if that sale did happen, how the French were going to circimvent the arms embargo- didn't it include CVs too?
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I would put my money on the dealbreaker being the insistence that the work be done in a French yard, as the other problems could be overcome. The catapults could be replaced by longer more powerful ones (there was no obstruction behind the bow cat to prevent the 155ft track being replaced by a 200ft track, equivalent to a BS6 as used on Ark and Eagle in their waist positions, and similarly the waist cat could be extended by extending the angled deck sponson further forward). This would allow heavier aircraft to be launched, and the arrestor gear could similarly be upgraded for heavier types. A ski jump could have been installed forward too, and if the waist cat was retained then the ship would be able to launch ctol AEW aircraft as well as SU-33s. The relatively small size of the the Clemenceau would mean a small air group, but as a first step she would have been very useful (fitting the bill as a 'training carrier' that so many assume Varyag will be).

As for the arms embargo, the French would have found some loophole to circumvent it along the lines of reclassifying the vessel as non military (!!!) or sold the ship to a third party along with a supply of aircraft and parts.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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If if's and whats were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christams.

Too bad a fine ship like this was not allowed to continue to serve in some fashion. And I feel the same way about the USN..

Well the USN announced recently that CV-67 would begin the decomissioning on 31 March 2007..

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By Navy Times

MAYPORT, FL -- The carrier John F. Kennedy will begin the process of decommissioning March 31, according to a Naval Administrative message released Dec. 21.

"Big John" will formally decommission Sept. 30, according to NavAdmin 373/06, and its inactivation availability will begin March 31.

Officials have approved a plan that will take the ship to Boston for a final port visit. Sen. Edward Kennedy and Navy officials announced Monday that the ship will make a final port call in Boston from March 1 through March 5.

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There was an internet rumor that the JFK was being sold to Japan...No way. Rumor mongers are in all countries.:(
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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More carrier news...

I just found the offical USN message namimg ships to be decomissioned.

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RAAUZYUW RUENAAA0686 3551940-UUUU--RUCRNAD.
ZNR UUUUU ZUI RUEWMCF4650 3551928
R 211940Z DEC 06 ZYB MIN ZYW PSN 175881K30 FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N8//
TO NAVADMIN BT UNCLAS//N03120//
NAVADMIN 373/06
MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/-/N8/DEC/06//
SUBJ/FY07 SHIP DECOMMISSIONING SCHEDULE (REV2)//
REF/A/MSG/CNO WASHINGTON DC/082138Z SEP 06// AMPN/REF A IS NAVADMIN
253/06 FY07 SHIP DECOMMISSIONING SCHEDULE AND REMAINING FY06 (REV1)//
POC/MS. B. LEWIS/CIV/N8F111/LOC: WASHINGTON DC/TEL: 703-695-4848//
RMKS/1. THIS MESSAGE UPDATES REF A TO REFLECT THE ADDITION OF USS JOHN
F KENNEDY (CV 67) TO THE FY07 DECOMMISSIONING SCHEDULE AND REVISES
DECOM DATES FOR SEVERAL SHIPS SCHEDULED TO DECOMMISSION IN FY07.
2. USFFC IS AUTHORIZED TO DECOMMISSION CV 67 NO LATER THAN 30 SEP 07.
USFFC WILL ASSIGN SPECIFIC DECOM DATE. CV 67 WILL BE PREPARED FOR A
SAFE STOW INACTIVATION.
3. FUTURE CHANGES TO SPECIFIC FY07 SHIP DECOM DATES LISTED IN THIS
MESSAGE WILL BE COORDINATED AND RELEASED BY USFFC. OPNAV WILL
PROMULGATE CHANGES TO THE INACTIVATION YEAR, AS REQUIRED.
4. THE REVISED SHIP DECOMMISSIONING SCHEDULE IS AS FOLLOWS:
SHIP PREVIOUS REVISED DISPOSITION
NAME DECOM DATE DECOM DATE
JOHN F KENNEDY(CV 67) NONE 30 SEP 07 TBD(NOTE 1)
HERON (MHC 52) 01 OCT 06 16 MAR 07 FMS
PELICAN (MHC 53) 01 OCT 06 16 MAR 07 FMS
DOLPHIN (AGSS 555) 08 DEC 06 15 JAN 07 DISPOSAL
CARDINAL (MHC 60) 30 DEC 06 07 JAN 07 FMS
RAVEN (MHC 61) 30 DEC 06 07 JAN 07 FMS
TRENTON (LPD 14) 17 JAN 07 NO CHG FMS
SALVOR (ARS 52) 12 JAN 07 13 JAN 07 MSC
OGDEN (LPD 5) 21 FEB 07 22 JAN 07 FMS
H G RICKOVER
(SSN 709) 01 MAR 07 NO CHG INACT (NOTE 2)
SAIPAN (LHA 2) 27 APR 07 25 APR 07 EXPERIMENTAL
SHREVEPORT (LPD 12) 28 SEP 07 NO CHG DISPOSAL
SAFEGUARD (ARS 50) 26 SEP 07 NO CHG MSC
MN-SAINT PAUL
(SSN 708) 27 SEP 07 NO CHG INACT(NOTE 2)
HONOLULU (SSN 718) 01 NOV 06 NO CHG INACT(NOTE 2)
NOTE (1): CV 67 IS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN ITS INACTIVATION AVAILABILITY ON
OR ABOUT 31 MAR 07.
NOTE (2): THIS IS THE DATE INACTIVATION BEGINS AT A NAVAL SHIPYARD AND
THE UNIT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR OPERATIONAL TASKING.
DECOMMISSIONING WILL FOLLOW AT A LATER DATE.
6. DISPOSITION CATEGORIES:
TBD: FINAL DISPOSITION WILL BE DETERMINED AT A LATER DATE.
DISPOSAL: VESSEL WILL BE STRICKEN FROM THE NAVAL VESSEL REGISTER AND
DISPOSED OF VIA MEANS TBD.
EXPERIMENTAL: VESSEL WILL BE USED ISO R&D OR ACQUISITION PROGRAMS.
FMS: VESSEL HAS BEEN REQUESTED FOR FOREIGN MILITARY SALES.
LOGISTICS SUPPORT: VESSEL USED AS A MEANS OF CANNIBALIZATION PRIMARILY
IN SUPPORT OF REMAINING ACTIVE USN SHIPS IN ITS CLASS.
SINKEX: VESSEL WILL BE USED IN SUPPORT OF A FLEET TRAINING EXERCISE.
INACT: SHIP BEGINS ITS INACTIVATION AVAILABILITY.
7. RELEASED BY VADM J. W. GREENERT, N8// BT
#0686
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According to this offical message the USS Siapan (LHA-2) will be held as an expermantal ship. That is very intresting..Anybody think a ski ramp may be added to the ship for "expermints"???:confused: Can't wait to see what tricks the USN has up it's sleeve!
 
Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

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bd popeye said:
More carrier news...

I just found the offical USN message namimg ships to be decomissioned.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




According to this offical message the USS Siapan (LHA-2) will be held as an expermantal ship. That is very intresting..Anybody think a ski ramp may be added to the ship for "expermints"???:confused: Can't wait to see what tricks the USN has up it's sleeve!
Click to expand...

I have a sneaking feeling that the 'experiments' will be ordnance related, ie she'll be used for target practice like so many other fine vessels have been lately! Let's hope something more positive happens in the meantime, I would so like to see a ski jump on a US flat top just to hear the collective "Ahhhh! So that's what all the fuss was about! Why didn't we do this sooner?" from the USN!

British Harrier pilots have long said it's a lot easier to stop and land than to land and stop, and I used to have a souvenier badge from the FAA museum in Yeovilton that said "Ski Jumpers get more upward THRUST!":D
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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I have a sneaking feeling that the 'experiments' will be ordnance related, ie she'll be used for target practice like so many other fine vessels have been lately! Let's hope something more positive happens in the meantime, I would so like to see a ski jump on a US flat top just to hear the collective "Ahhhh! So that's what all the fuss was about! Why didn't we do this sooner?" from the USN!
Click to expand...

Obi Wan. According to the Navy speak in that message if the ship was going to be disposed of it would say "disposal". I just hope the USN does something worthwhile with the ship instead of sink her. What a waste of US taxpayer money!

I for one would love to see a ski ramp on the ship...:)
 
Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

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I was just thinking about the old saying, expect the worst and hope for the best! A Ski Jump on a USN flat top; how long before we see a tv special with someone driving a NASCAR off the end?
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
bd popeye said:
Obi Wan. According to the Navy speak in that message if the ship was going to be disposed of it would say "disposal". I just hope the USN does something worthwhile with the ship instead of sink her. What a waste of US taxpayer money!

I for one would love to see a ski ramp on the ship...:)
Click to expand...

My sources state that JFK is in a really bad shape. She needs a comprehensive overhaul, and the fact she was placed in Naval Reserve (meaning: little money for upkeep and low personnel levels) didn't help either. Her SLEP was cancelled in 1991, and in 2001, she failed INSERV (U.S. Navy Board of Inspection & Survey) inspection. It will take a lot of money to get her back into shape, and the fact she is an oddball in the fleet (due to political circumstances) in that she was meant to be the first of the new Nimitz carriers but the environmentalists, Congress and the White House didn't want a nuclear powered ship. At the time, the USN did not have a viable plan for decommissioning a nuclear powered warship, as there were only a few CGNs and CVN65 on the surface, and as such, due to the circumstances, her machinery was based off the USS America. JFK's maintenance costs were always higher than other conventional carriers like Kitty Hawk, Forrestal, and Connie because she was a oddball in the fleet.
 
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bd popeye

bd popeye

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VIP Professional
My sources state that JFK is in a really bad shape. She needs a comprehensive overhaul, and the fact she was placed in Naval Reserve (meaning: little money for upkeep and low personnel levels) didn't help either. Her SLEP was cancelled in 1991, and in 2001, she failed INSERV (U.S. Navy Board of Inspection & Survey) inspection.
Click to expand...

Yes placing her in a reserve status really hurt her. Funny thing is she never stopped deploying while she was in a reserve status. And yes the ship is in very poor material condition. She has in fact failed more than one INSURV inspection. Plus two recent CO's were relieved of duty for various reasons..

It si dispicable that the US navy let this ship deteriorate to the condition it is now in.
 
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