Aircraft Carriers III

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Exactly, airliners are maximized for very high sub-sonic speeds and maximum range, that means high altitude with high aspect ratio wings,,, the fighter on the other hand has shorter wings for maneuvering in the low and medium altitudes, only EuroFighter and Raptor are true high altitude athletes..

back to the point, the military fighter aircraft on a ferry flight is maximizing range, and must refuel multiple times, those refuelings require "meeting tankers" where its most convenient for the tankers to "stage"... I believe the Marines Pacific crossing involved refueling 8 times, it was a bunch, because of the large reserve required for "overwater" flights and likely imposed by the USAF.

The point is, each refueling requires the "meet up", the "hook up", and then the "join up", as the formations flys to the tankers, breaks up, refuels, then re-joins,,, that would probably take 20 to 30 minutes in good weather for a four ship...
Indeed. Here's some shots of the four 617 birds and their Tanker. Note no external ferry tanks, unusual for any other military fast jet these days but the new norm with the F-35B:38GpPO-Official-20180606-083-013.jpg 38GpPO-Official-20180606-083-024.jpg 30595117_10156387757864885_3495754820873093120_o.jpg 34686254_10160435149485627_7662308551842332672_n.jpg When the USMC crossed the Pacific as AFB mentioned above, one of the reasons they had to top up 8 times was the USAF insistence that the refuelling probe remained extended at all times, incurring drag penalties and thus fuel economy was much worse than otherwise because the aircraft had to have sufficient diversion fuel at all times.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Indeed. Here's some shots of the four 617 birds and their Tanker. Note no external ferry tanks, unusual for any other military fast jet these days but the new norm with the F-35B:View attachment 47235 View attachment 47236 View attachment 47237 View attachment 47238 When the USMC crossed the Pacific as AFB mentioned above, one of the reasons they had to top up 8 times was the USAF insistence that the refuelling probe remained extended at all times, incurring drag penalties and thus fuel economy was much worse than otherwise because the aircraft had to have sufficient diversion fuel at all times.

Very good detective work Master, the Marines were unhappy, however, they all arrived safely with plenty of fuel reserve.. the USAF has a lot more experience ferrying aircraft overwater, and many of those experiences especially early on, resulted in the loss of aircrews and aircraft, the Air Force doesn't want to lose a single airman or aircraft, so they insisted the refueling probes remain extended in order to avoid the catastrophic potential of a malfunctioning probe that failed to extend.

If one were to do some research, one would no doubt find that more aircraft and crew have been lost through fuel exhaustion, much of that from getting lost in bad weather or poor navigation....I had one incident of fuel exhaustion, as I was pulling to the vertical after a fast past, I unported the tanks, and at 300ft, my engine quit going nearly straight up,,, its very sobering, and quiet,,,
 
Exactly, airliners are maximized for very high sub-sonic speeds and maximum range, that means high altitude with high aspect ratio wings,,, the fighter on the other hand has shorter wings for maneuvering in the low and medium altitudes, only EuroFighter and Raptor are true high altitude athletes..

back to the point, the military fighter aircraft on a ferry flight is maximizing range, and must refuel multiple times, those refuelings require "meeting tankers" where its most convenient for the tankers to "stage"... I believe the Marines Pacific crossing involved refueling 8 times, it was a bunch, because of the large reserve required for "overwater" flights and likely imposed by the USAF.

The point is, each refueling requires the "meet up", the "hook up", and then the "join up", as the formations flys to the tankers, breaks up, refuels, then re-joins,,, that would probably take 20 to 30 minutes in good weather for a four ship...
you should've told TE who was 'saving F-35' Thursday at 7:48 AM
Air speed is technically relative.


All time is relative by velocity so Says Albert Einstein. but in travel it depends on rotation of the planet. The Jet stream and altitude.
didn't see a better spin lately LOL
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
you should've told TE who was 'saving F-35' Thursday at 7:48 AM

didn't see a better spin lately LOL

to answer your question what TE meant was that the aircraft were "throttled back" in order to minimize fuel flows,, not "throttled up" to minimize flight time..

and so time was "relative" or an element of secondary concern, fuel was the defining element for the trip.
 
to answer your question what TE meant was that the aircraft were "throttled back" in order to minimize fuel flows,, not "throttled up" to minimize flight time..

and so time was "relative" or an element of secondary concern, fuel was the defining element for the trip.
let me see the question ... Thursday at 7:43 AM
what exactly is "relative" here??

asking because I've always thought time is "absolute", LOL
in relation to Wednesday at 11:07 PM
That's because of Altitude and the Jet stream giving them a slight cheat. It's all relative really.

he then Thursday at 7:48 AM gave me
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though

I mean this was one of the most hilarious moments during my five years in the SDF
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
let me see the question ... Thursday at 7:43 AM

in relation to Wednesday at 11:07 PM


he then Thursday at 7:48 AM gave me
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though

I mean this was one of the most hilarious moments during my five years in the SDF

Happy for you having a hilarious moment here on SDF,,, its not nearly as much fun as it was 5 years ago, LOL! If the F-35 wanted to "pick up the pace" it would have and would have no problem doing so, even without afterburner, but the fuel burn would go up.. just as it does on "every aircraft", when the throttles are advanced...

SDF has seen better days, when BDPopeye and Jeff Head were in the wheelhouse,,, they spent many, many hours making sure we all were on our best behavior... the kind of rude nonsense we see and hear these days would have met a sudden death!

Our present mods are very fine gentlemen, and men of character and honor, each one, but, the bold and precise steerage of BD and Jeff has been throttled back! very sad for each of us, but I'm very thankful that Jeff Head is still with us, the Lord even now sustaining him through a magnificent fight against cancer, and BD has pulled the throttles back, leaving the headaches and heartaches of leading a bunch of "characters", to more youthful gentlemen...
 
Happy for you having a hilarious moment here on SDF,,, its not nearly as much fun as it was 5 years ago, LOL! If the F-35 wanted to "pick up the pace" it would have and would have no problem doing so, even without afterburner, but the fuel burn would go up.. just as it does on "every aircraft", when the throttles are advanced...

SDF has seen better days, when BDPopeye and Jeff Head were in the wheelhouse,,, they spent many, many hours making sure we all were on our best behavior... the kind of rude nonsense we see and hear these days would have met a sudden death!

Our present mods are very fine gentlemen, and men of character and honor, each one, but, the bold and precise steerage of BD and Jeff has been throttled back! very sad for each of us, but I'm very thankful that Jeff Head is still with us, the Lord even now sustaining him through a magnificent fight against cancer, and BD has pulled the throttles back, leaving the headaches and heartaches of leading a bunch of "characters", to more youthful gentlemen...
prayers for Jeff
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
prayers for Jeff

Amen, and were it not for the Loving hand of a good and gracious God, and loving and kind Doctors and Nurses, who have moved heaven and earth to bring him the best medical care on earth, and the unflagging love and respect of his Godly wife and children, bless them Father today!, as you continue to touch our very kind and faithful Brother, with your Life and Peace!

and many, many thanks to the Faithful Brothers of SDF, who continue to pray and encourage our Brother,,, your faithful friendship has been a great encouragement to Jeff!
 
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