Aircraft Carriers III

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
A new big boy Kaga DDH-184 the 2nd Izumo enter service today based to Kure do swap hull with Ise/Hyuga which go for Sasebo but in fact replace in the Fleet Kurama/Shirane before based to Sasebo retired today

Hyuga class i have can host up to 28 helos ( Hyuga 18 ) usualy 7 SH-60K, 2 MCH-101 ( Hyuga 3 + 1 )
But a doubt for the max number also mentionned up to 14 and 11 for two classes ?

Displacing 24’000 tons at full load with a 248m long and 38m wide flight deck, the ship can accommodate 14 helicopters (official number). However, considering her size and the large hangar, I think 28 helicopters is a more likely figure
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Izumo more versatile can embark up to 500 troops vs 100

Janiz SamuraiBlue what u have for max helo number ?

Japanese navy boosts overseas force projection capability with second big helicopter carrier
Japan's second big helicopter carrier, the Kaga, entered service on Wednesday, giving the nation's military greater ability to deploy beyond its shores as it pushes back against China's growing influence in Asia.

Accompanied by a military band, Maritime Self Defence Force commanders took possession of the 248 metre (813.65 ft) long vessel at the Japan Marine United (
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) (
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) shipyard in Yokohama near Tokyo, where it was docked next to its sister ship the Izumo.
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Japon kaga.jpg
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Captain's Log supplemental: In reference to my previous post, the unseen aspect of the preparations in Pompey for the QECs is the dredging work done to allow them to use the harbour; not just the channel leading in and out of the harbour up to the new jetty but also the 'turning area', adjacent to the jetty an area large enough to 'spin' the carrier round so that it faces back to sea once more. The QEC's underwater dimensions (draft and beam) are VERY similar to a Nimitz class CVN (the US ships are longer), so I think it highly possible that next time a CVN visits the UK instead of having to drop anchor off the Isle of Wight, they might just come alongside for a change...
I have see up to 60 aicrafts maybe even 70 whose 50 F-35 possible ?
Can launch how many saying in a minute 1 - 2 ?
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
@FORBIN, many times you ask "how many". one thing that must be taken into account is does the ship have accommodations/berthing for the personnel to maintain these aircraft. I know that aboard the Japanese DDH even lower enlisted men have six person state rooms. I also know RN ships have staterooms for lower enlisted. This decreases the number of aircraft a ship can accommodate. Aircraft just can't be added without accommodations for the crew.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
@FORBIN, many times you ask "how many". one thing that must be taken into account is does the ship have accommodations/berthing for the personnel to maintain these aircraft. I know that aboard the Japanese DDH even lower enlisted men have six person state rooms. I also know RN ships have staterooms for lower enlisted. This decreases the number of aircraft a ship can accommodate. Aircraft just can't be added without accommodations for the crew.
Accomodation on the QECs for junior Ratings will indeed be in six berth cabins, which include wi fi access so they can face-time with family back home whenever they are off duty for example. A bit of a change from the occasional letter home in the old days! The QECs have a ship's complement of about 680, about the same as the preceding Invincible class, but with air group embarked this will rise to between 1400-1600, which in a hull similar in size to the USNs Kitty Hawks which could accommodate over 5000, albeit packed in 'like sardines', which is a standard of living conditions modern recruits would not accept to be fair:Mattresses_sit_on_beds_in_a_cabin_for_crew_in_the_ship_being_put-a-17_.jpg 7823717094_fd7aaab7e5_b.jpg Retention is a major issue for all modern Navies. You can't just pack them into racks like the old days. One of the reasons modern warships are so much bigger than their predecessors is the need to provide improved facilities for their crews, including recreation, so Gymnasiums and better berthing for even the most junior members of the crew. It's not enough to say 'Join the Navy, See the World' because with internet access and air travel most potential recruits can already see the world if the urge takes them.

My Brother served on SSNs in the late 80s and early 90s and didn't even get his own bunk back then, he had to share. 'Hot Bunking' they called it, because the beds never cooled down. As one sailor got up to start his watch another sailor climbed into his rack to get some sleep. The RN's Astute class for example are the first to provide enough bunks for everyone aboard, and none of them 'sleep with the fishes' (Torpedoes) like previous generations.

Back to CVF, I think the RN has for years been deliberately underselling the ship's capacity in many areas, probably to avoid scaring off the politicians who often confuse size with cost. The RN has a track record of this. For example, the Invincible class were officially stated as being designed for an air group of just five Sea Harriers and nine Sea Kings. When the Falklands war broke out Invincible immediately embarked her 'war strength' air group with an extra three Sea Harriers and more helicopters. It later emerged the class could comfortably operate an air group of 22, not the 14 previously stated. They also had an official top speed of 28 knots, except more than a few of their officers and crew admitted in interviews that they could comfortably make 30 knots when required.

Similarly, although the official line is that the QECs will have a top speed of 25 knots, televised interviews with engineering staff on the new ships in the last couple of years have let slip they can also make much more headway than that, possibly up to 30 knots. Don't expect any admissions about what they can do after sea trials though...

Which brings us back round to the air group. For many years the official line has been they were designed to operate up to 36 F-35Bs and four helicopters, a total of 40 aircraft. Now the lines have been blurred somewhat, by talking about multiple different aircraft types to reflect the inherent versatility of the ships in operation, with less talk about total numbers of Lightnings beyond the minimum needed for normal ops (1 squadron of 12, 2 giving 24 as required). You have to keep your eyes and ears open for when those 'in the know' let slip what the real capabilities of the ships are. They are comparable in size as I said earlier to the USN Kitty Hawk class, and whilst they are unlikely to operate an air wing on that scale anytime soon, don't be surprised if an emergency produces something on those lines down the line...RNslideshow.jpg
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Accomodation on the QECs for junior Ratings will indeed be in six berth cabins, which include wi fi access so they can face-time with family back home whenever they are off duty for example. A bit of a change from the occasional letter home in the old days!

Very nice indeed!

The QECs have a ship's complement of about 680, about the same as the preceding Invincible class, but with air group embarked this will rise to between 1400-1600, which in a hull similar in size to the USNs Kitty Hawks which could accommodate over 5000, albeit packed in 'like sardines', which is a standard of living conditions modern recruits would not accept to be fair:

On board all US Navy Super Carriers from a Forrestal to a Nimitz class there are several berthing compartments with around 200 racks/bunks. Trust me ..not nice at all. Not much privacy. Oh you do get 2 lockers. One of which you are sleeping on the other is a small stand up locker. And just hope that your berthing is in close proximity to a head/bathroom...trust me some aren't.

Aboard older class CVs, Midway & Essex class, the berthing compartments were smaller but there were some large ones but most. But as Obi wan stated;...packed in 'like sardine
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Just kidding..I think;)

Obi Wan.. I 'm glad you posted about the QE. I finally figured out how the British developed the Ski Ramp take off..Garry Anderson a UK citizen..now deceased..who produced many marionette SI-FI tv shows. Such as Fireball XL5. My personal favorite.


End Kidding!:D
Many of the guys who worked on Gerry Anderson's shows back in the 60s and 70s described themselves as 'frustrated aero engineers'. and at the time the UK's aircraft manufacturing industry was being decimated by the Government so a lot of talented people came on the market... The ski jump launch idea goes back even further (on celluloid at least) to George Pal's 'When Worlds Collide' from 1951:hqdefaultDATW5S07.jpg when-worlds-collide-rocket-track.jpg images1.jpg
Lt Cmdr Taylor who invented the ski jump in the early 70s was a former Flight Deck Officer aboard HMS Victorious back in the 60s and would have been a kid of the right age to have seen that movie first time around...
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
OFF TOPIC! ... Oh and you can get collectibles from Fireball XL5 on ebay: XL5-4.jpg
But I think you have to build your own launch ramp! -BACK ON TOPIC!

I mentioned the wi fi and internet connection in every cabin on modern RN warships including the QECs, it goes without saying in a combat situation when the ship is practicing EMCON (Emissions control, basically radio silence) then youtube privileges will be somewhat curtailed...
 
...And as everyone and their mother seems to be obsessed with the flight deck coating needed to operate F-35Bs on other carriers, here's a clip that was shown on prime time British Television a little while back:
NLdWX.jpg
 
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