Aircraft Carriers III

I logged back on to comment on the "logic" of the claim you made Today at 8:59 AM
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Best work arounds I have heard is to take the offensive edge. Keep the US carrier numbers around where they are in the 300+ fleet schemes and up the number of Virginia class SSGN configured subs. The sea denial missiles can take surface targets but if the threat is submersible the threat Dynamics change. Sea denial is aimed to deny access and reaction by US carrier forces and allow the denying nation unrestricted access. But subs can deny.
using two examples:
  1. an old example of A2AD was the strategy and tactics adopted by Sir Francis Drake against Medina-Sidonia; after the British and Dutch get off with the Armada, they didn't sail to bomb the Spanish coast, did they?
  2. a newer example of A2AD was the positioning of US forces on and around Midway; after the victory they just retreated as far as I know
so I think this statement:
...

The logic is simple if you deny access to others you are allowed unrestricted dominance.
is nonsensical (but I'm not going to post about it anymore; maybe I just misunderstood)
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I logged back on to comment on the "logic" of the claim you made Today at 8:59 AM

using two examples:
  1. an old example of A2AD was the strategy and tactics adopted by Sir Francis Drake against Medina-Sidonia; after the British and Dutch get off with the Armada, they didn't sail to bomb the Spanish coast, did they?
  2. a newer example of A2AD was the positioning of US forces on and around Midway; after the victory they just retreated as far as I know
Jura those are not Denial those are destruction, Battles. Where in Naval assets were used to sink other naval assets. not A2AD. In those cases the Ability of the defeated Navy to go on the Offensive was destroyed and there was little need to push farther or the situation was that the victor had suffered sufficient damage to require refloating.
so I think this statement:
is nonsensical (but I'm not going to post about it anymore; maybe I just misunderstood)
The Current A2A Denial concept is prevention of The USN from accessing denied Sea via the threat of sinking American Surface Navy assets though missiles. It argues that via a missile which is ridiculously Cheap compared to a full naval captial ship the security of denied Sea is assured as no nation could justify the loss of such major assets as the cost benefits analysis doesn't work.

IE if you know there is a axe murder in the basement why would you go into the basement?

The Concept does not actually need a Carrier to be sunk, in fact No US Carriers have been sunk by DF21D yet it has changed the USN strategy already.
Think of it less like a sea battle and more like either the Great wall of China or Hadrian's Wall.
Once the Wall was up and running hostile factions north of the Wall were prevented entry under threat of annihilation. South of the Wall The militaries who constructed them had unrestricted operational purview. If you were a Hostile Tribe north of the Walls you could not raid south. If you were a Hostile tribe south of the Wall you were isolated and destroyed. As the power who constructed the walls could operate with impunity. the only parties allowed through the wall were just that "allowed". They were parties who were considered not a threat. That's Area Denial.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I don't think it's covered by any of Aristotle's figures, that's why I failed to discern your logic, but thanks :)
..and only Kitty Hawk is held in reserve. And when CVN-78 is commissioned Kitty Hawk will be stricken from the Navy list..aaarrrvvv..

The oldest active carrier serving with the US Navy is Nimitz. She was commissioned into service on 3 May 1975 at Naval Station Norfolk VA....and she is preparing for another deployment;



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Well, it is my understanding that Nimitz will go into reserve when the John F Kennedy, CVN-79, the second Ford class carrier becomes operational.

She is expected to launch in 2020 and be in service in 2022. so the NImitz will keep going that far. From 1975 until 2022 will mean 47 years.

Then they will begin replacing the Nimitz one for one as the Ford's come out. That is the plan and that will mean 11 operational super carriers as long as they do that.

The 3rd Ford carrier will be...yes, you got it, CVN-80 the USS Enterprise! And she is slated to replace the Ike in 2027 or so, which means the Ike will have served 50 years.

The Ford, which is about to go on its first trials, officially ie replacing the Enterprise.

11 super carriers active with another one always in reserve.

Then when you start adding those f-365Bs to the Wasp and America class and create theat capability, you will have the capability of creating a smaller, but very effective carrier or two or three or four, anytime they are needed. Particularly when they come up with a AEW OPsrey.

Anyhow, the carrier is not about to go down.

In fact, once they make full use of the Ford class and get those F-35Cs along with F/A-18F Advanced Hornets on them, they are just going to get more powerful.

As will their escorts with the Flight II Burkes and ultimately a new cruiser...but that is still a few years away.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
I certainly believe that part of the USN's plan to extend carrier availability worldwide over the next few decades is to rely on allied navies to help fill gaps. Not that there are many, but recent years have seen overwork and reduced maintenance schedules lead to problems that will be resolved eventually but may well reoccur given similar circumstances. The announced deployment of USMC F-35Bs aboard the QECs along with other rotary wing types alongside the UK aircraft aboard will lead to a capability superior to an America class LHA but inferior to a CVN. Still enough to make an impact on the world stage if a CSG is unavailable.

In the next decade there may well also be moves behind the scenes to persuade other allies to facilitate similar arrangements, for example the US could help pay for necessary upgrades to the RANs Canberra class LHDs in order for them to operate a sqn of USMC F-35Bs on joint ops, even if the Aussies themselves ultimately can't find the cash to do the work and buy the 'B's for themselves. Spain, Italy and eventually Turkey could also fall into this category too...

Such ships whilst certainly not being a match in terms of capability for a USN CVN, definitely would have a lot of political value and these kind of operations buy a lot of capital for their Governments. That alone may make it a worthwhile venture. It's certainly the case for the UK Government with the QECs.10440725_731959280179155_4591802540002148334_n.jpg
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Excellent post Obi Wan.. you are indeed wise as Yoda has foretold.

The public in the US in particular has no idea of the needs, size, power and ablity of the USN. Especially if they pay attention to the wrong liberal news source.
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Don't blame me...Google translate...I've seen worst...trust me..

Devil into the village! Japan's quasi-aircraft carrier will cruise the South China Sea to contain

Reuters reported on March 13 that Japan plans to send a quasi-aircraft carrier[?] "Izumo" in May to carry out a three-month cruise in the South China Sea. This is Japan's largest naval force since the Second World War in the region. Reuters reported that the frigate (?) will work with the US Navy in the South China Sea training. A spokesman for the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force declined to comment.

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This photo of the very large hangar is censored..I don't know why..curious.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Also posted in the 'UK Military News' thread:
The UK 'stands up' it's first F-35B sqn, and it's a Navy one too!
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Well, kind of... posted in this thread as the aircraft are assigned to a Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier, HMS Siskin (R01):14140283_597x401.jpg 14140308.jpg 14140302.jpg 14140320.jpg
 
in case you didn't know Carrier USS Carl Vinson to Arrive in South Korea Today
American aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) is set to arrive in South Korea today to join in joint exercises with the Republic of Korea armed forces, U.S. officials told USNI News on Tuesday.

The carrier and its strike group will be part of the bilateral Operation Foal Eagle and Key Resolve 2017 exercise series that train for potential conflict with North Korea.

Carl Vinson’s presence is another tangible example of how the ROK – U.S. Alliance continues to enhance interoperability and key capabilities to ensure security and stability on the Korean Peninsula and the region,” commander U.S. Forces Korea Army Gen. Brooks said in a Monday statement from the carrier.
“Seeing the crew in action and how the U.S. Navy conducts their operations while underway is always impressive.”

Key Resolve began on Monday and is, “scheduled to run through March 24, the drill is expected to be the largest ever in scale, with the participation of about 300,000 troops,”
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.

Like last year, the allies will train to execute Operation Plan 5015 – the plan to deter North Korea use of weapons of mass destruction with a preemptive attack, according to local press reports.

Included in the exercise this year will be Marine F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighters, the U.S. Army’s Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) ballistic missile defense system and special operations forces (SOF).

Pentagon officials denied reports that the exercise would include the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, known as DEVGRU or SEAL Team Six that would train for a so-called “decapitation mission” as part of the exercise,
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.

The Vinson Strike Group deployment is being overseen by U.S. Third Fleet based in San Diego, Calif. as a test of the Navy’s ability to command and control forces in the Western Pacific,
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.
source is USNI News
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quoting from the link:
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“They are really life-like, impressive and above all they give a sense of realism to the training here,” said CPO(AH) Paul Ranson.

“It’s good to get people getting used to moving them around the deck, alongside Harriers running with all the noise and the smell. And for the fire-fighters, there’s the challenge of lifting a 16-stone dummy from the cockpit.”

what Harriers?
 
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