Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

asif iqbal said:

Navyreco you have done a fantastic job are you a military journalist how did you get on board? Wow nice so lucky I would have loved to have been there really big and massive excercise

You had a mine sweeper group
A carrier strike group
And a amphibious ready group all working together for a single mission now that's what I call a naval unit

A few questions

Can the landing catamaran fit in to the Foudre Class LPD?
Also what the is the Super Etendard mission from the CVN, is it air superiority or ground support?

France should not have cancelled the 4th Mistral, the 2nd carrier and sold the 2nd LPD to Chile

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-The commanding officer of Mistral told me in most operations, the Mistral class deploys with 1x EDAR (LCAT) and 2xLCU because "that is the most effective set up"

- A contact I have at CNIM (designer of EDAR) told me the LCAT could fit in the Foudre LHD but not in the Siroco LHD; They are the same class but Siroco had some modifications that makes its welldeck too small for LCAT

-SEM conduct anti-ship, precision strike and refueling missions

navyreco said:

- A contact I have at CNIM (designer of EDAR) told me the LCAT could fit in the Foudre LHD but not in the Siroco LHD; They are the same class but Siroco had some modifications that makes its welldeck too small for LCAT

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That's interesting and also a shame since I wonder why then they sold off the Foudre LPD and not the Siroco

If they could fit the LCAT into the LPD basically you have a extra ship to shore connector and a rather large one at that a huge advantage

Jeff Head said:

Oh, I think that a Royal Navy group consisting of the HMS Queen Elizabeth (with a full load of F-35Bs), the HMS Ocean, the two Albion Class LPDs, a couple of Type 45 Darings, an Astute class SSN, and accompanying Type 23 FFGs would be as strong, if not stronger than the French group.

The major advantage for the French grouping at that point would be the E-2C Hawkeye AEW capability they would bring.

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It's not just limited to AWACS France has a much better amphibious lift capability with 3 x LHD and 1 x LPD whereas the RN has 1 x LHD and 2 x LPD

The flat deck space of the 3 x LHD allows for a much needed vertical lift capability that RN marines just don't have in terms of landing spots they have the lot

Having troops moved en mass by air through multiple LHD is a advantage France enjoys hugely over the RN

In addition they have those most important cats and traps which adds fixed wing AWACS to the package which is really the eyes and ears of the entire strike group

Do not forget that Royal Navy operates the RFA ships too, and Royal Navy is much bigger than the French Navy in terms of total tonnage.

There are additional 3x 16,200 tons dock landing ships, 4x 23,000 tons sealift, and many other big support ships in the RFA used by the RN.

Russian Navy is the strongest in Europe anyway.

HMS Astute said:

Do not forget that Royal Navy operates the RFA ships too, and Royal Navy is much bigger than the French Navy in terms of total tonnage.

There are additional 3x 16,200 tons dock landing ships, 4x 23,000 tons sealift, and many other big support ships in the RFA used by the RN.

Russian Navy is the strongest in Europe anyway.

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I have not forgotten about them

RFA fleet is like the Military Sea Lift Command in that it supplements the operations of the RN and to save money used for operations simply because RN is too stretched the prime example is the Bay Class ships which routinely go abroad because they can't send a LHD or a LPD simply because they only require for a crew of just 70!? Seriously......

But no ship of the RFA can be used as a frontline war going over the horizon amphibious landing not the Bay Class not the Point Class

Bay Class has no hanger or helicopter facility's to carry out air opps it can be used for landing and take off but not for core helicopter operations for organic use

The Point Class are basically merchant run ships can be used by the navy many country's have and operate these types of roll on and roll off ships I certainly wouldn't not class them as warships for amphibious invasion

In essence RFA is a transport facility's for the RN to lift men and materials to a combat zone but do not have the fully fledged capability that a flat deck LHD or LPD provides

asif iqbal said:

It's not just limited to AWACS France has a much better amphibious lift capability with 3 x LHD and 1 x LPD whereas the RN has 1 x LHD and 2 x LPD

The flat deck space of the 3 x LHD allows for a much needed vertical lift capability that RN marines just don't have in terms of landing spots they have the lot.

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Yes, but I was speaking specifically about the group of ships shown.

I contend that a French task fporce with:

1 x Charles de Gualle CVN
2 x Mistral LHD
1 x French LPD
1 x Horizon DDG
2 x Fremm FFG
1 x Rubis SSN

... would not be more powerful than a corresponding UK task force with:

1 x HMS Queen Elizabeth CV
1 x HMS Ocean LPH
2 x Albion Class LPDs
1 x Daring DDG
2 x Type 23 FFGs
1 x Astute Class SSN

In addition to more landing spots on the amphibious vessels (15 versus 10 in the grouping being considered), the only other real advantage that the French have is the AEW on the carrier...but with the awareness that the F-35s will bring, overall I believe that will be largely negated. The British carriers are also set up to be able to carry, in addition to their strike fighter airwing, Marines and helicopters, which could be used to suplement the other RN amphibs as necessary.

Now, if we compare entire fleets, then yes, the French have three Mistral LHDs to one HMS Ocean LPH, but I believe the Royal Navy's LPDs are better than the French. No dount there are more landing spots on the 3 LHDs + 1 LPD, than there are on one LPH and two LPDs. But, overall, the Royal Navy will have two carriers to one for the French. Also, the Royal Navy has six world-class DDGs to only two for the French, and the Astute SSNs are far better than the French SSNs.

Anyhow, I was comparing the specific task force pistured more than the entire fleet anyway.

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Jeff Head said:

IN addition to a few more landing spots on the amphibious vessels, the only real advantage that the French have there is the AEW on the carrier...but with the awareness that the F-35s will bring, overall I believe that will be largely negated.

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That awareness is somewhat constrained as I understand it without given away its stealth and hence negate its major strength. The only proposed workaround I have seen is using a buddy sensor fusion chain link to an out-theatre node for distribution via Link 16. Not sure how practical or viable will this be operationally.

Jeff Head said:

and the Astute SSNs are far better than the French SSNs

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I hope the Barracuda will be (at least) on par with Astute, if not better

A new French Navy video (actually produced by some kind of association of naval aviators)

[video=youtube;ygk5Su-Lb2U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygk5Su-Lb2U[/video]

(That catapult launch on board the Hawkeye looks painful)

Other thing now planned 2 UK CV in service, before 1, better but should offset the withdrawal of Ocean which seems without substitute.