Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Jeff Head said:

Well, I was actually sort of surprised, with their own budgetary issues, to see Italy retain the Garibaldi.

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my guess is the point is to have (at least) one carrier "ready at all times", I mean if the 550 wasn't available for whatever reason, 551 would go ... but I've read (unfortunately don't remember where) now the Garibaldi doesn't have the Harriers aboard so things may go into the direction already taken by the P. de Asturias we talked about yesterday

You simply have to give the Indians credit.

They are moving along very rapidly. I see seven aircraft lined up on deck in one part of the recent video...and you can see six in the hanger in another part. They are probably operating 10-12 Mig-29Ks off of the Vikramaditya now.

Some good photos of their air ops:

vikram's not been in karwar port since mid april

aksha said:

vikram's not been in karwar port since mid april

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They have been out working her hard to get her air wing stood up on the carrier.

Clearly, the Indians had good numbers of production aircraft already for many months. They had already officially stood up and put in service a squadron before the carrier ever got there. They clearly were preparing and ready for the carrier to get to them and almost immediately went out and began qualifying their pilots on the carrier itself. Now, six months later, they are operational and flying at least seven off of the deck.

It is clear from the video that they can park at least five forward of the island, and seven behind the island, and still conduct flight operations. We have not seen 12 on deck...only seven to date. They may have more in the hanger.

Perhaps the Chinese will be doing this same type of thing (we hope and anticipate) after the Liaoning comes out of maintenance...either late in the year, or next year.

Jeff Head said:

You simply have to give the Indians credit.

They are moving along very rapidly. I see seven aircraft lined up on deck in one part of the recent video...and you can see six in the hanger in another part. They are probably operating 10-12 Mig-29Ks off of the Vikramaditya now.

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I give them credit also.

As someone who actually worked on the flight deck I do not like what i see as far as safety is concerned.

1) No flight deck helmet
2) No flotation vest.
3) No gloves.

And I bet they do not have steel toe boots. Just guessing.

These are safety concerns and easy fixes.

bd popeye said:

I give them credit also.

As someone who actually worked on the flight deck I do not like what i see as far as safety is concerned.

1) No flight deck helmet
2) No flotation vest.
3) No gloves.

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I noticed the same things, Popeye.

They really should have helmets, flotation vests, and gloves on.

Otherwise, they will learn the hard way...sadly, through injury or worse...that flying objects kicked up be jet blast or landings, etc. and personnel falling overboard, require that they have these things.

The IN has been operating carriers in some form for well over 50 years.. seems they would have opted for more safety measures by now.

The planes taking off from the Vikramaditya are all unarmed for now. In that video you can see the problem with the Vikramaditya, without space between the island and the runway and with no jet blast deflectors all activity on the flight deck comes to a halt when planes are taking off or landing. The Liaoning will have similar problems when planes are taking off from the back position. All activities infront would have to come to a halt. Something that CATOBAR carriers don't have as they can launch their planes directly from the angled deck. With jet blast deflectors on the Liaoning planes taking off from the front won't prohibit activities in the back. Even landing planes. But having planes taxiing towards its launch position while planes are landing will depend on the circumstances on the flight deck.

Franklin said:

...all activity on the flight deck comes to a halt when planes are taking off or landing.

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Well, not really. All activity does not halt.

When taking off from the position further aft and on the port side, the blast is directed off of the ship, and then along a line of the aircraft's departure.

Activity in the spaces behind the island, where numerous aircraft are spotted either for fueling or weapons loading, and in preparation for takeoff, can continue without impact. Same is true for the spotting areas in front of the island.

When aircraft are landing, activity along those same area, where aircraft are spotted will also continue.

As these pictures demonstrate:

Well, "all activities" was perhabs the wrong words to use. What i meant to say is that planes cannot move (taxi) around the flight deck when planes are taking off or landing. This is a big problem for the Vikramaditya and to a lesser extend the Liaoning and the Admiral Kuznetsov too. Especially when you compare it with CATOBAR carriers like the Nimitz or the Charles de Gaulle. This is due to 2 facts. The STOBAR config means that the planes taking off from the back needs to run the entire length of the flight deck that needs to be cleared. And the oversized islands is eating up a lot of the space that otherwise would have been use to move planes around. These are problems that the Vikramaditya, Liaoning and the Admiral Kuznetsov shares.