Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

asif iqbal said:

So what the second unit is being constructed in two different places? How is that going to work isn't that just extra work they will have to move one or the other to the same place before final assembly what a hassle it's not like they built just the modules it's the entire aft and now sections in two different places?

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I didn't want to comment on that earlier , but now I must Mistral-class is huge blunder for Russia . It was a political kickback for then ruling Sarkozy government . As you may recall, pro-Western Medvedev was Russian president then , and he was trying to improve relations with West , especially France . France mediated peace in Russia–Georgia war , and helped mending relations between Russia and EU , so this contract was their reward . But after that came Libya , then Syria , then rights of homosexuals etc ... and everything crashed down .

As it stands now , Mistral-class would not be able to operate in colder Russian waters , and probably would be transferred to Pacific or Black Sea fleet . Russia didn't get any significant Western technology with the ship , and as we see it is not true that they could not produce ships of similar size on their own . For my part , I really don't get why they need ships like that in first place - money would be better spent on newly built destroyers for example .

thunderchief said:

As it stands now , Mistral-class would not be able to operate in colder Russian waters .

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I have a question.. why would wouldn't the Russian navy Mistral class LHDs be unable to operate in colder Russian waters?

Thanks!

bd popeye said:

I have a question.. why would wouldn't the Russian navy Mistral class LHDs be unable to operate in colder Russian waters?

Thanks!

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Because it requires reinforced hull and structural changes to cope with the Arctic conditions

Same issue arose with the fuel lines Russian said the current set up is not adequate for Arctic conditions and that the fuel would freeze adding in addictives would give the fuel viscosity not applicable with the lines in colder conditions so they had to solve that issue too

Actually they have had many issues in the design of the Mistral Class for Russia but seems like it's all resolved now

Russia is building over 100 helicopters for this Mistral Class fleet and will have a huge jump in capability once they are commissioned

France pulled a cheeky one here they sold them to the Russians and they could order a further two more means four LHDs, another extra headache for Royal Navy and more build up North which means RN will be deploying it's QE north into the Arctic which I believe they have plans for

Thanks for that answer.

asif iqbal said:

Because it requires reinforced hull and structural changes to cope with the Arctic conditions

Same issue arose with the fuel lines Russian said the current set up is not adequate for Arctic conditions and that the fuel would freeze adding in additives would give the fuel viscosity not applicable with the lines in colder conditions so they had to solve that issue too

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I was aboard USS John F Kennedy in September 1972. We operated above the Arctic Circle for NATO exercise Strong Express.

From 14-28 September 1972, John F. Kennedy participated in NATO Exercise Strong Express. During that time, on 17 September, she crossed the Arctic Circle for the first time and received a visit, on 19 September, by Secretary of the Navy John Warner and General Robert E. Cushman, Jr., USMC, the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Another notable event that occurred during those operations was the cross-decking of an F-4K Phantom II and a Hawker-Siddeley Buccaneer IIB from HMS Ark Royal to John F. Kennedy and an F-4B and an A-6 to the British carrier, an evolution that “increased the flexibility of air operations in allied efforts and opened the door to increased efficiency in combat conditions and strategic concepts.” Flight deck crews having been exchanged prior to the evolution ensured that those involved encountered “no major difficulties.” During the same period, John F. Kennedy, operating in the North Sea, cross-decked four A-7s to Franklin D. Roosevelt (CVA-42) operating in the Mediterranean at the time, and received a like number of Corsairs from Franklin D. Roosevelt.

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I'm assuming US Navy ships are built to a standard that will withstand the conditions in the Arctic.

asif iqbal said:

Because it requires reinforced hull and structural changes to cope with the Arctic conditions

Same issue arose with the fuel lines Russian said the current set up is not adequate for Arctic conditions and that the fuel would freeze adding in addictives would give the fuel viscosity not applicable with the lines in colder conditions so they had to solve that issue too

Actually they have had many issues in the design of the Mistral Class for Russia but seems like it's all resolved now

Russia is building over 100 helicopters for this Mistral Class fleet and will have a huge jump in capability once they are commissioned

France pulled a cheeky one here they sold them to the Russians and they could order a further two more means four LHDs, another extra headache for Royal Navy and more build up North which means RN will be deploying it's QE north into the Arctic which I believe they have plans for

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Which is why I said earlier it's very important to built naval warships to a certain standards especially if you're a green or blue water navy! These ain't no cruise ships traveling in the warm tropical waters off the Carribean islands. You may potentially sail into very high sea states with extreme conditions. You need things to be properly insulated, parts strenghtened and double or triple redundancy in not just critical but on some non critical systems also.

In this is in peacetime!

The Russian Mistral is not the same as the French Mistral. The Russians design calls not just for Russian arms but also heating system. because of the temperatures of the Arctic waters any sea spray that hits the ship will flash freeze, the worry is that the deck could quickly become a Ice sheet a foot thick adding tons of weight.
personally I don't view Mistral as a poor choice. I think it's Three Steps forward for the Russian nation

Step one. the Russian navy's indigenous Amphibious assault capability has been limited to landing ships. they can move tanks to the front, land troops and equipment but air cover and Air assault has been a gaping hole. Mistral gives the Russians a answer to that gap.

Step two. It reestablishes a Franco-Ruso relationship. The Russian nation and French nation have a long political relation that was interrupted by the cold war. France now sits at the heart of NATO, getting good ties with France and Germany places Russian interests closer to the view point of NATO.

Step Three. It's a stepping stone. The Russian navy since the End of the USSR has only had one true flat top the Kuznetsov, They lost the Facility that built it they lost her sister ship and over time they lost the skills used and need to build it. the Russian home port St. Petersburg builds fine destroyers and good cruisers but has almost no history of flat tops.
Building Mistral is in my view part of a road map Putin the Great has to reestablish Russia as a modern military power. The Indian carrier Step one relearning to work on such ships and developing life extensions for Kuznetsov, Mig29K putting new wings on Russian Flat tops, Mistral gives Russian builders experience not just repairing but building a new ship, It also gives them Access to more modern techniques and technologies in propulsion like Azimith pods, command and control systems. It is my opinion that although the Russians have not cut steel for a new carrier this is because like the PLAN they are taking a step by step plan to there next carriers.

Guys, there are numerous reports that clearly indicate that the the deal that the Russians signed with the French to build these Mistral vessels specifcally included hull strengthening to operate in the arctic waters.

Russian Defense Policy said:

RIA Novosti also noted Isaykin saying the Russian Mistrals will be identical to French units except they’ll have reinforced hulls and flight decks to handle Russia’s northern waters, and its heavier helicopters. Isaykin said Russia has an option for two more Mistrals to be built in Russia. But it’s up to the Defense Ministry to get money for them in the Gosoboronzakaz.

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Defense Industry Daily said:

Structurally, weather is the first priority. Operations within Russia’s Pacific and Northern fleets will require some hull strengthening to guard against ice damage

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Navy Recognition said:

Other notable modifications include increased hangar height to accomodate the Kamov helicopters, modified bridge structure, reinforced hull to operate in Arctic zones...

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When you include that, the changes in the hanger deck height to accomodate the Russian helicopters, the complete enclosure of the well deck, the changes in the island, and the different weapons and sensor suite, I think you could almost consider this a new class...call it the Vladivostok class LHD.

bd popeye said:

I'm assuming US Navy ships are built to a standard that will withstand the conditions in the Arctic.

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No more Royal Navy laughing and calling US Navy main ships as 'usleless' or even worse like they did years ago?

Rutim said:

No more Royal Navy laughing and calling US Navy main ships as 'usleless' or even worse?

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I hope no member in this forum is laughing at the USN.....During Strong Express which still is the largest NATO exercise ever held there were Royal Navy ships among many other nations there.. and of course the Soviet Russians were watching...as always.

And Who could call this useless?

ATLANTIC OCEAN (Dec. 10, 2013) The U.S. Navy flight demonstration squadron, the Blue Angels, fly in the Delta Formation over the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77) off the Florida coast near Mayport Naval Station. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Terrence Siren/Released)

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The following is a detailed outline of U.S. Fleet Forces new Optimized Fleet Response Plan (O-FRP). Beginning with the USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75), the navy will schedule maintenance and deployments in a new scheme centred around the carrier strike group.

The Optimized Fleet Response Plan (O-FRP) has been developed to enhance the stability and predictability for our Sailors and families by aligning carrier strike group assets to a new 36 month training and deployment cycle.

Beginning in fiscal year ’15, all required maintenance, training, evaluations and a single eight-month deployment will be efficiently scheduled throughout the cycle in such a manner to drive down costs and increase overall fleet readiness.

Under this plan, we will streamline the inspection and evaluation process and ensure that we are able to maintain a level of surge capacity.

O-FRP reduces time at sea and increases home port tempo from 49% to 68% for our Sailors over the 36 month period. Initially focused on Carrier Strike Groups, O-FRP will ultimately be designed for all U.S Navy assets from the ARG/MEU to submarines and expeditionary forces.

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popeye's comments..

I did not read the entire article in the link..

Ok,.. does this 3-4 carriers deployed include George Washington which is forward deployed to Yokosuka Japan?

And right now as of this moment there is only one CVN deployed away from CONUS..Harry S Truman.