Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Jeff Head said:

16-18 is "upwards" of 20. In English, "upwards," of something means a number approaching it.

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I have no idea what you mean, 16-18 is downwards of 20 not upwards

Upwards means more than not approaching, and I don't know how you arrive at 16-18 being more than 20??

You are either saying they can deploy less than 20 or more, Because 16-18 is "less" than 20 not more, so still I don't know how you said in your original statement that they can deploy upwards of 20 flat tops when clearly numbers your mentioned are less than 20

asif iqbal said:

I have no idea what you mean, 16-18 is downwards of 20 not upwards

Upwards means more than not approaching, and I don't know how you arrive at 16-18 being more than 20??

You are either saying they can deploy less than 20 or more, Because 16-18 is "less" than 20 not more, so still I don't know how you said in your original statement that they can deploy upwards of 20 flat tops when clearly numbers your mentioned are less than 20

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No worries Asif the word "upwards" is used mostly as a figure of speech by Jeff, it is not to be determine as an exact number. It's more of an exact estimate in a real time scenario.

asif iqbal said:

I have no idea what you mean, 16-18 is downwards of 20 not upwards

Upwards means more than not approaching, and I don't know how you arrive at 16-18 being more than 20??

You are either saying they can deploy less than 20 or more, Because 16-18 is "less" than 20 not more, so still I don't know how you said in your original statement that they can deploy upwards of 20 flat tops when clearly numbers your mentioned are less than 20

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As I already explained, Asif, in American English, the idiomatic expression of "upwards," means something that is approaching the number that you are speaking of. Therefore, as you approach twenty, you are "upwards" of 20. It does not mean "over" twenty.

As Equation said, is a "figure of speech," or "idiomatic expression," which means exactly what I told you.

You can either learn a new figure of speech in American English, or you can refuse to believe it and decide from your perspective it does not mean this.

But, I live here in the US and use US English to express myself, and in the US, if the US Navy can deploy 16-18 of these vessels, then one could and would say that they can deploy upwards of twenty. Another word you could use if you prefer would be to say they could deploy "about" 20, but meaning a number approaching 20 but also less than 20.

Hope that helps, that is what was meant with this term.

Good stuff guys sometimes we can get mixed up with the terminology and it can cause confusions, nevertheless it does makes sense, American English is always confusing, like we say football you guys call it soccer, we say pavement you say side walk, and this one i like we call a cigarette a fag, well in America a fag is you know what i mean (a homosexual) , imagine you heard Englishman say "hey we just smoked a fag together" lol

anyway back to carriers!

The old trouble, Americans and Englishmen, two peoples divided by a common language. It was said long ago. And to some extent it is true between Scots and English, and between every other pair of English speaking peoples.

Just to get it recorded here as well, today's China Military Review pronouncement about the construction at Changxing Island could be the first "semi-official," type indication that the vessel and structures we see there at Changxing Island is in fact a PLAN LHA.

If so, then the shadows were not playing games on us. Here is what I have come up with to explain what we are seeing.


From this, it is clear to me that the PLAN is constructing its first large LHA Vessel there at Changxing Island, probably in the 35-40,000 ton range. From the photo, it may well be that what we are seeing there in the lower left, could in fact be the second such vessel under construction.

The JMSDF DDH22 is nearing a launch date..

The naming and launching ceremony of latest aircraft carrier-class destroyer “22DDH” will be held at Yokohama on Aug. 6, 2013. “22DDH" is a light aircraft carrier under the name of building "helicopter carrier". It's Japan's new generation helicopter destroyer. The Japanese helicopter carrier can be seen at the pictures.

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Credit to Jeff Head. Jeff photo-shopped

this photo some years ago after the announcement of the JMSDF DDH22

bd popeye said:

The JMSDF DDH22 is nearing a launch date..

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That's a GREAT new pic, Popeye!

It shows clearly some of the differences. The additional width of the flight deck. The two aft sponsons for weaponry instead of the single one on the Hyuga Class.

The island also differs somewhat, though the basic shape is the same. She is going to have two RAM launchers with 42 total missiles, and two 20mm Phalanx CIWS.

She is going to be a nice vessel, and as you say, should be launched soon. They will build a second one of these...then potentially be on to their 26DDH vessels which may be purpose built for STOVL aircraft.

A real stunner! Brilliant design and amazing look, clearly much larger than the Hyuga Class but the island does look the same size

This vessel will be the minster of defence in the Japanese Maritime Self Defence forces, without doubt could lift 25-30 helicopters

From this angle it looks comparable to the Queen Elizabeth carrier! South Korea should take note here who seem to have fallen asleep after one build, they lie inbetweeen who rising giants and unless they start building some serious flat tops could end up in a sticky situation not to mention North Korea

South Korea has amazing industrial power and even better finances building say 6 Dokdo Class shouldn't even make them break sweat, hell even the Aussies are going to get two pretty big LHD soon and Russia already has two in build with opition got two more

JMSDF I think should in my opinion add a few more Arleigh Burke derivatives to thier surface force as escort for these flat tops

asif iqbal said:

JMSDF I think should in my opinion add a few more Arleigh Burke derivatives to thier surface force as escort for these flat tops

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Well, the have the four Kongos and the two Atagos so they have six. But they are busily building newer designs of their own. They have finished building and launching all four Akizuki DDGs which have an equivalent system to AEGIS which can also data link to it and perform cooperative engagement with it. So there's ten. They also have the five Takinami Class which are very similarly armed to the newer Akizuki. So that's fifteen.

The improved Akizuki is coming next, 4-6 of then before 2020, so that will be 19 to 21. So they are building rapidly too.


Clearly, the Japanese are now standardizing on their own, new AEGIS-like system. Both Hyugas have it, all four of the Akizukis have it, the new Kaga carriers (22DDH) of this thread have it, and the follow on to the Akizukis will have it too.

That will be a total of 12-14 vessels by 2020 with that new dual mode system, plus their six AEGIS vessels.