Aren't the Russians ultimately going to license build these themselves?
I bet they will make the necessary adjustments and when they build them, you will find them coimng out built to the Russian's specific needs with issues like this resolved.
Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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I bet they will make the necessary adjustments and when they build them, you will find them coimng out built to the Russian's specific needs with issues like this resolved.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Russians have input to the LHDs but the first two are being built inside France to Russan specifications, however the fuel issue was over looked and as you say the order for the second two are to be built inside Russia which will certainly have arctic issue solved
I think they are going to try to solve the issue and technical details are being discussed, if they fail to resolve the issue then Russia will basically have two LHD which can not patrol in the icey conditions of the Northern Seas
But these LHD have really put French ship building on the map, three for this class went to French Navy and 2+2 to Russia Plus a whole host of interest from other nations, if France can get three more to export that means they will have built 10 Mistral Class LHD, probably paying back for the three in service with the French Navy with some money left over for profit, that is a very good stratedgy!
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
strange, when they put that island on it seemed like the carrier was nearing ready, then you think, the rear island is still to be fitted!!
but really that design is really nice, twin islands will look different and another innovation by Royal Navy which joins a pretty long list! that is the kind of thing you would expect from them
one thing you cant really tell from these pictures is the size, this ships is absoluetly massive, huge in its size, you can only tell that when you see it close up
during my weekly drive over the Forth Road Bridge you can clearly see that blue overhead crane, infact you can see that 10 miles away from Norths Queensferry, then as you get closer you realise how big it actually is and then compare that to the carrier and wow!
many people working on this ship are young, they never have seen anything like it before, and they probably wont see anything like it again in thier lifetimes, just hope Rosyth gets the maintanence and overhaul contracts for the 2 carriers which will secure jobs at the shipyard for next 4 decades
This ship will put the "Royal" back into the Royal Navy
but really that design is really nice, twin islands will look different and another innovation by Royal Navy which joins a pretty long list! that is the kind of thing you would expect from them
one thing you cant really tell from these pictures is the size, this ships is absoluetly massive, huge in its size, you can only tell that when you see it close up
during my weekly drive over the Forth Road Bridge you can clearly see that blue overhead crane, infact you can see that 10 miles away from Norths Queensferry, then as you get closer you realise how big it actually is and then compare that to the carrier and wow!
many people working on this ship are young, they never have seen anything like it before, and they probably wont see anything like it again in thier lifetimes, just hope Rosyth gets the maintanence and overhaul contracts for the 2 carriers which will secure jobs at the shipyard for next 4 decades
This ship will put the "Royal" back into the Royal Navy
Well, those of us acquainted with naval matters and shipbuilding can tell from these pics that these are huge carriers. Next to the US Supercarriers, they, along with the Kuznetsov and Varyag are the largest carriers in ther world.
Just sad that more are not being built. Yes, the maintenance contracts will secure work for decades...but with the US projecting to build ten Ford Class carriers, you are looking at fifty years of huge manpower needs (lots of jobs) for the next fifty years, and that is before you even factor in the mainteance of them that will extend for another fifty years beyond that.
With the Queen Elizabeth class, the Daring, Type 45 Destroyer Class, the Astute Class SSNs, and the next generation, Type 26 frigates coming along, the UK will have the newest and most modern classes of vessels for their carrier strike groups.
It's just a shame that there are so pitiful few of them.
I would have loved to see four of these carriers (three at a minimum), all twelve of the Darings, 12 Astutes, and a good 24 Type 26s FFGs. (Global Combat Ship (GCS) which is still eight years away, but the Type 23 Duke class are good designs and the 13 of them will hold the line well until that time). That would have ensured that the Royal Navy had enough assets for all contingencies and was prepared before hand in the event of any outbreak of major hostilities.
Now, sadly, if that were to happen, the Royal Navy would be severally undermanned and undershipped...and these type vessels cannot be built in any kind of short time frame. They would have to hold out for years if they could.
I hope the US Navy remains strong, so that we can benefit (all of us) from the amazing vessels the UK is putting out. And with ultimately having 70+ Burkes, 10 large nuclear carriers, 10 large LHD/LHAs that can operate as Sea Control carriers, and with increaing numbers of Virginia Class SSNs, I believe we'ill be alright. At least I pray that is the case.
When you conider western Europe as a whole, there will ultimately be a total of six good carriers (2 for the UK, 2 for France (maybe), one for Spain and one for taly), 16 strong AEGIS/SAMPSON DDG sized escorts (UK- 6, France - 2, Italy - 2, and Spain - 6), and between France and the UK enough nuclear subs to escort those groups too.
Anyhow, back to the point of the post...the continued progress on the UK new class carriers is great to see.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
thats the thing, there is a danger of over working the limited assets and also now Royal Navy lacks "critical mass"
there should have been like you say 12 Type 45 DDGs with Tomahawk and 20 Type 26 FFG, (to replace one on one Type 22 and 23 FFG)
for Queen Elizabeth we should have built 4-6 Carriers all flat tops, not ski jumps involved
in addition we the it should have been 6 MARS replenishment tankers to be built in UK not 4 going to South Korea
apart from the carriers the plan was always as above, somehow cuts after cuts after cuts we have the current inventory
Jeff,
It's sheer fantasy to think that Italy or Spain can continue to pay for a flattop or that France can build another one. UK is paying for the prestige of having nuclear weapons and two flattops but there were serious complaints about inadequate equipment for the forces in Helmand, especially helicopters. It pays for very prosperous bankers but can't invest enough in infrastructure, think of the railways.
In general the infrastructure in Europe needs a massive upgrade and without that it can't have an economy able to pay for the armed forced it already has. Remember what China did around 1980.
It's sheer fantasy to think that Italy or Spain can continue to pay for a flattop or that France can build another one. UK is paying for the prestige of having nuclear weapons and two flattops but there were serious complaints about inadequate equipment for the forces in Helmand, especially helicopters. It pays for very prosperous bankers but can't invest enough in infrastructure, think of the railways.
In general the infrastructure in Europe needs a massive upgrade and without that it can't have an economy able to pay for the armed forced it already has. Remember what China did around 1980.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
a good point, i like it, but rest of Europe is far ahead in terms of infrastructure when it comes to the UK, the first railway ever, i mean in the whole world was from Darlington to Stockton, it took 45 minutes around 190 years ago, do you know how long it takes today? yeah 35 minutes!! so we managed to cut 10 minutes in 190 years!!!
we started making railways then we just stopped, whole Europe is on high speed tracks but UK still has no high speed tracks, HS1 and HS2 are costing £20 billion+ and will take more than 20 years to build, and even then London-Manchester will save only 25 minutes, its too little too late
problem is UK is goverment, too much back handling, Corruption , people claiming benifits, money being sent outside the country, MPs claiming expenses on big luxuary second homes the list is endless
2 Queen Elizabeth Carriers is costing £6 billion, it is employing 10,000 people and will span 10 years, so thats around £60,000 per person, but half is probably material costs so its around £30,000 per person, so basically by building these ships its like paying £30,000 per person for next 10 years, pretty average wage for UK skilled worker and maybe just enough
now we order 6 of these and that means we now give 30,000 skilled workers jobs for 10 years or 10,000 skilled workers for 30 years!! you can see the benifits, not to mentione dif you make 6 instead of 4 the unit cost comes down
now keeping them operational is expensive but they have thousands of people working inside them, all have jobs
no country ever came out of recession by cutting military budget, infact history has shown that countrys that do cut military budgets begin thier decline
if you want to stay at the top, spend as much as you can on military, if UK lost Falklands today it would have been begging bailouts from Gambia! it would have no world standing, no respect, armed forces would have a stigma and it would just be a embarresing situation, everyone would know, The Empire has gone, and did not strike back!
Italy (Cavour) and Spain (Juan Carlos) already have their carriers...both of them very new. I have not read of, or seen any plans of them preparing to divest themselves of them. So it is not fantasy at all to consider that they will continue to support them, currently it is what they are planning to do.
As I said, economic downturns do not last forever and sooner or later they will come out of it and continue on...at that time, the F-35B will look good to them if they desire naval air for those carriers.
As to France, they are still planning, in the future, to add a second carrier. The same condition I just explained will apply to them too. Currently, they too have no plans to divest themselves of their Charles de Gaulle. Of course, there will be no F-35 option for the French. They are perfectly well suited for now and the forseeable future with their Rafaels.
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