Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Jeff Head

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Then what sense does it make to have the boat to be fixed at Russia generating profit and jobs and expertise for Russians, at India's expense? My understanding is that India and Russia had a contract and Russians failed to deliver. If that is the case, shouldn't boat be fixed at India by Indians and billed to Russia? Maybe with the military dependcy between the two, Russians just have much stronger leverage. It looked to me they had gotten away with murder.
They do have a contract...and Russia had a problem in the build and now is amking good on the contract by fixing it. That is why it was fixed in Russia.

Very straight forward...they had not finished it yet and in their trials before handing it over to India, they discovered the problems with the brikcks for the boilers. So they have fixed it.

To my understanding there were no additional charges to India as a result of this fix...just more aiting before it is delivered to them per the contract.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Vladivostok, Russian Navy future Mistral class LHD, specificities and characteristics
STX France shipyard in Saint Nazaire is currently assembling the bow and central sections of Vladivostok, the first Mistral class LHD amphibious vessel ordered by Russia. First cut of steel for this head unit took place at the Russia’s Baltic Shipyard United Shipbuilding Corporation (OCK) in St. Petersburg in August 2012. Construction of the warship began last year at the STX shipyard in St. Nazaire, after Russia signed a 1.2-billion euro deal with DCNS for two French-built Mistral vessels, which was signed in June 2011. The official keel laying ceremony took place at STX Shipyard in France in February 2013.

Based on the same Mistral class design as their French Navy sisterships, the Russian Navy amphibious vessels Vladivostok and Sevastopol will have their own specific differences in the following area:
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
It's Impressive and one of the checks on my Russian carrier watch list is now ticked. The Ka29 choppers are a bit small when compared too the Seaknights or osprey but compare well too Knighthawks and out class Venoms. The KA52K would give them a some capabilities of Harriers and Vipers.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
I am still waiting for a true confirmation regarding those Ka-52K.

AESA radar from Mig 35 and anti-ship missiles seem like a very nice capability (Sea-Apache anyone?) but both the radar and missiles (Kh-31 and Kh-35) are heavy.

I don't doubt the Russians are working on it, but I am waiting to see what will actually come out of it.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Ka 52 is pretty powerful most russia choppers are over engined and with the extra lift of the counter rotating rotor system I could see it.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The problem with that is aircraft carriers are not consumer electronics. You're suppose to be able to use aircraft carriers in a situation called war. Now, we are not even talking about using a weapon that you don't know how to build; we are talking about using a weapon that you don't even know how to fix. What if it's damaged, what if there is a break down in one of millions of places that could retard its combat capability? What do you do? send your carrier to Russia for service in the middle of a war?

This would depend on the damage and parts required to repair it. Same applies for any other export warship. We cannot assume that the customer bought spares for every component, or has the capability to manufacture every component.

Say if the ship's phased array radar system was damaged. I'm sure India has the capability to replace it, but the parts may need to be imported from Russia first.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Vladivostok, Russian Navy future Mistral class LHD, specificities and characteristics

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Look like Russia is concentrating its efforts on what it's strengths are, that's in helicopters and by the looks of it they will be fielding a formidable helicopter fleet from these LHDs
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Look like Russia is concentrating its efforts on what it's strengths are, that's in helicopters and by the looks of it they will be fielding a formidable helicopter fleet from these LHDs
Wow, significant increases in capabilities:

Navy Recognition Online said:
Air wing:
Following a requirement from the Russian Navy, the air wing of the Russian landing ships is increased compared to the French Navy Mistrals. The Vladivostok is designed to accommodate 30 Ka-52K Alligator and Ka-29 helicopters instead of the originally planned 16 helicopters. This will increase the landing and overall power projection capacities of the ships.

Landing craft:
If the Russian Navy selects Russian made landing craft for their Mistrals, they will likely be project 11770 Serna or project 21280 Dyugon, those being the latest landing craft projects in Russia.

Project 11770 Serna has a displacement of 99.7 tons and maximum speed of 30 knots. It can transport one main battle tank or two armored personnel carriers or 92 soldiers.

The larger Dyugon (Project 21280) has a displacement of 280 tons and maximum speed of 35 knots. Dyugon can carry three main battle tanks or five armored personnel carriers. Dyugon may have to be modified as its mast appears to be too tall to be able to fit inside a Mistral class vessel’s well-deck.

However, according to some reports, Russian Navy may be procuring French made L-CAT landing catamaran instead. Designed to land troops and military vehicles from an over-the-horizon amphibious vessel (30 nautical miles/55 km), the L-CAT has a payload of 80 tons with a maximum speed of 30 knots. Its doors at the front and rear simplify the loading and unloading of vehicles.

Weapons:
Vladivostok type Mistrals are set to receive a fully Russian weapons fit.

Self protection against air threats will be fulfilled by two Gibka 3M-47 air defense missile system: One located the bow, port side and another system located at the stern, starboard side.

Two AK-630M CIWS are set to be fitted (bow, starboard side and stern, port side) for close range protection against air and surface threats.

Four DP-65 antisaboteur grenade launchers will be fitted on each side of the vessels. Designed for protection of ships against attacks of underwater combat swimmers at external threats at open anchor stops and bases. The system ensures single-shot and salvo fire with rocket grenades RG-55M and RGS-55.

Other Modifications:
Other notable modifications include:

- Increased hangar height to accomodate the Kamov helicopters
- Modified bridge structure
- Reinforced hull to operate in Arctic zones
- Specific warming devices on deck
- A well-deck door that completly closes the well-deck (on French Mistrals, the well-deck door doesn't reach the top of the well-deck, leaving an opening)
- Several Russian specific systems (note the several radomes placed at different locations in the image shown with the Russian Vladivostok pictured on the left.

Vladivostok_LHD_BPC_Russian_Navy_Bow.jpg
Mistral_Tonnerre_BPC_LHD_French_Navy_Bow.jpg
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
this months Warship magazine has said that Russia is really not that happy with Mistral Class, one of the issues they are facing is trying to have modifications to have these ships so they can sail in arctic conditions, supposidly there is a fuel issue and the standardized fuel the French issue is prone to waxing in cold weather, it means adding in heaters to all the fuel lines but that is not possible because it requires its own heating system which can not be fitted due to space limitations!

thats why Russia has ordered two and will use them for a few years and if they are 100% happy they will go for another 2
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
I'm surprised that the Russians didn't install RBU-XXXX or Paket-E/NK system for torpedo defense.

As for the Arctic operation issues, this reminds me of Taiwan's Maokong Gondola system imported from... France! They were built to operate in the Alps so no air conditioning system was needed for the air-tight cabins. Unfortunately nobody bothered to check how hot it gets in Taipei during Summer time. So folks riding on the gondola are basically chickens in a roasting box:
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This makes me wonder if arctic temperature was listed for the ship's operating requirements? In worst case the first 2 ships would not be capable for arctic deployment, while the latter 2 could be modified with fuel line heaters?
 
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