Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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franco-russe

Senior Member
This site is interesting, it has all the specs you want on almost every Russian naval ship you can think of. I don't know how authoritative this is but it looks pretty good.

According to this site there are 3 sub classes of the Kiev class carriers. There is the original Kiev class carriers (project 1143) Kiev and Minsk and then there is Project 1143,3 also project 1143m the Novorossiysk and finally we have Project 1143,4 first known as Baku later Admiral Gorshkov and now INS Vikramaditya.

It may also be interesting to know that the Soviet Navy seems to be changing the pennant numbers on their carriers almost every year.

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Yawn...

As you may have noticed, the Soviet Navy is no more.

But it is entirely correct that the Soviet Navy changed the pennant numbers of all combatants every three years, on May 1st.

The last change was on 1 May 1990. The pennant numbers now worn by Russian Navy ships are those that were introduced 23 years ago. The pennant numbers given to newbuildings are less random than those of Soviet days, e.g. Pr. 20380 STEREGUSHCHIY 530, SOOBRAZITELNYY 531, BOYKIY 532.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos II

It still amazes me that the UK politicians made the decisions that they made with respect to these two carriers. Now that they are not planning to idle one and sell it as soon as it is built, at least they will get both carriers and the F-35B, With all of its built-in limittions because of the VTOL capability, the F-35B will still end uup being far more capable than the Harriers.

If they cross deck to US carriers (and they will be able to very easily because the US Marines are committed to maintaining Marine squadrons of F-35Bs on the nuclear carriers as they have done in the past with the F-18s, the F-4s, A-7s, A-6s, and F-8s before them), they will be able to more fully intergrate the whole operation with the US NAvy and its larger carriers. PAiring a QE and a Nimitzwould make for a very pwoerful combined group.

Still, having aircraft like the E-2D, the Rafale/Typhoon/F=35C, etc. and all the capabilities that would have gone with all of that pitched out the window over some very short term issues...which decision haa now caused the costs to almost equal what they said they were trying to avoid in the first place, is very perplexing and disappointing.

Just the same, the QE carriers with two full squadrons of F-35Bs and a potential decent AEW V-22 variant at some point, and escorted by Type 45s and Type 26s and Astutes are going to be very capable groups all the same, and I am glad that at least the UK is getting those as opposed to what could have happened.
I think the differences between Navy and Marine versions of F-18s, the F-4s, A-7s, A-6s, and F-8s are/were much smaller than between F-35-C and -B. How well possible will it really be to carry F-35B's on CVN's?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
How well possible will it really be to carry F-35B's on CVN's?

It's possible but not likely. In 1976-'77 the USS Franklin D Roosevelt (CVA 42) had one Harrier squadron assigned to her air wing for her last cruise(deployment).

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Another first was racked up by USS Franklin D. Roosevelt when, on October 4, 1976, the first overseas operational commitment on a carrier for the AV-8A Harrier began when VMA 231 embarked aboard for a Sixth Fleet deployment. On January 13, 1977, two other Harriers made bow-on approaches and landing aboard the carrier, marking the first time a fixed wing aircraft had made a bow-on, downwind landing aboard a carrier at sea.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Yawn...

As you may have noticed, the Soviet Navy is no more.
The Soviet Navy is no more, but there still is a rather capable Russian Navy. A shell of the former Soviet Navy perhaps, but finally stirring and showing some life after many years. Here is what it consists of, including the clas sof vessels, the names and the date in service (in parens):

Aircraft Carriers (CV):
1 - Kuznetsov (1990)
1 Total Carrier

Nuclear Cruisers (CGN):
1 - Petr Veliki (KIrov Class) (1998)
1 Total Nuclear Crusiers

Crusiers (CG):
1 - Kerch (Kara Class) (1974)
3 - Slava Class (1982-1989)
4 Total Crusiers

Destroyers (DDG):
1 - Kashin Class (1969)
4 - Sovremenny Class (1989-1993)
8 - Udaloy Class (1982-1999)
13 Toital Destroyers

Frigates (FFG):
3 - Burevestnik Class (1978-1981)
2 - Neustrashimmy Class (1990, 2009)
4 - Steregutshckay Class (2007-2013)
2 - Gepard Class (2003, 2012)
2 - Gorshkov Class (2012, 2013)
13 Total Frigates

Nuclear Attack Submarines (SSN):
4 - Victor III Class (1988-1992)
2 - Sierra II Class (1990, 1993)
8 - Akula Class (1990-2001)
1 - Yasen Class (2012)
15 total SSNs

Nuclear Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN):
5 - Oscar II Class (1989-1993)
5 Total SSGNs

Conventional Attack Submarines (SSK):
17 - Kilo Class (1981-1990)
1 - Lada Class (2010)
18 Total SSKs

Ballistic Missile Nuclear Submarines (SSBN)
3 - Delta III Class (1979-1982)
1 - Typhoon (1981)
6 - Delta IV (1984-1990)
2 - Borei ( 2012, 2013)
12 Total SSBNs

Amphibious vessels:
4 - Alligator Class (1966-1975)
15 - Ropuchka Class (1976-1991)
1 - Iven Gren Class (2013)
20 Total Amphibs

Total Navy Major Combatants:
32 major surface combatants
50 total submarine combatants
20 Total Amphibious Vessels
102 Total Major Combatants

Of those 12 have been built in the last five years

delft said:
I think the differences between Navy and Marine versions of F-18s, the F-4s, A-7s, A-6s, and F-8s are/were much smaller than between F-35-C and -B. How well possible will it really be to carry F-35B's on CVN's? .
Not hard at all. The US Marines are committed to maintaining a certain number of squadrons of F-35Bs aboard CVNs just like the they have always had fighter/attack squadrons aboard US Navy carriers.

In total, the various types of aircraft aboard US Navy carriers are far less than before. Basically, just a few years ago, for Fighters/Attack/ECM/Recon/Refuel/AEW/Cargo you had F-14s, F-18s, A-6s, A-7s, EA-6Bs, S-3s, E-2Cs, and C-2s...eight different types of aircraft to maintain. Now you basically will have F-18s, F-35s, E-2C/Ds nd C-2s doing all of that...four types of aircraft to maintain (meaning half as many different types, meaning better maintainability). At some point they will add the UCAVs (X-47B) or whatever production designation they give it.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
It's possible but not likely.
The Marines to date have fought HARD to not acquitre the F-35C. Currently, no F-35Cs are scheduled for US Marine service, yet there remains a requirement for US Marine F/A squadrons for CVN use.

The Marines fear that if they give in to getting F-35Cs, that their numbers of F-35Bs will be reduced.

As I understand it, the compromise currently in place is that the Marines will equip CVNs with F/A squadrons in the form of F-35Bs, and therefore ensure they get all the F-35Bs they are wanting for the LHAs and LHDs.
 

aksha

Captain
[video=youtube;LCVyWHAyQ34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LCVyWHAyQ34[/video]mig 29 k[video=youtube;WgqF5JA15Co]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WgqF5JA15Co[/video]
 
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aksha

Captain
[video=youtube;OTiroCcsbjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OTiroCcsbjw[/video][video=youtube;D3AMB7ZFF3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D3AMB7ZFF3Q[/video]
 
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navyreco

Senior Member
Indian Navy aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is yet to be delivered

According to an Indian Navy statement, the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is yet to be delivered to the Indian Navy. The ship was put to sea for trials from June to September 2012. During the sea trials over 108 days, the main propulsion plant could not complete the 'full power trials' due to defects encountered on 'boiler furnace brickwork' at higher speeds.
...
The aircraft carrier commissioning in the Indian Navy is now scheduled in the last quarter of 2013.
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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Indian Navy aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is yet to be delivered


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first it was start of 2013 and now it has slipped towards the end, any votes for it slipping further down the line to 2014? Indian high command must be seriously annoyed! from Indian point of view they are committed they have put so much into this they have no other choice but to wait it out
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
first it was start of 2013 and now it has slipped towards the end, any votes for it slipping further down the line to 2014? Indian high command must be seriously annoyed! from Indian point of view they are committed they have put so much into this they have no other choice but to wait it out
I really don't see anything new here.

After the bad bricks ffom last year, we knew that they would fix the carrier, but then not be able to leave the far north until Spring...which will still be another two months away at least.

Then they would take her out for trials again and ensure that the new bricks and repair was working properly...so probably June time frame before they even start for Inddia, which means July-August before they are in a position to compeltely turn it over.

That would mean a September, maybe October induction into the INS, which puts you right up there in the 4th Quarter. This news, IMHO, is basically restating what we already knew.

At this point, short of a failure for the Russian yards to have fixed the issue, I do not see the hand over date slipping any further. I believe in 2014 we will see the carrier very rapidly working up its wing of Mig-29Ks since they already have them and their pilots are already training in them...they will now simply have to carrier qualify.

IMHO, the race is on to see whether China or India complete their airwings and their training forst to make theior former Russian aircraft carriers operational with the aircraft they were intended to carry. I believe it is going to be a close race in that regard.
 
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