Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I would disagree, China has been studying US carrier ops for more than 20 years and the way they have rebuild the ex-Varyag shows you that they are more inclined to follow US carrier procedures and tactics. But either way it's going to take a very long time before China can operate a carrier battle group as effectively as the US.

China may have also already got all the manuals of operating USN carriers. Also no doubt they have already got all manuals from Russian/USSR as well
 

Franklin

Captain
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Big difference between watching someone else operate and actually having hands on experience. The Chinese likely have had exposure to Russian carrier ops extensively, and that will be the basis of their experience to draw upon.

China and Russia never cooperated on aircraft carriers. The cooperation that China got was from the Ukraine and Brazil. I'm sure that China has the training manual for Soviet aircraft carrier ops because their first batch of pilots were trained at the NITKA acadamy in the Ukraine, but also have the training manuals of the Americans like antiterror13 said. China would be inclined to follow American procedures but i suppose they cannot escape Russian elements because they are working with a Soviet designed ship and planes.
 
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NikeX

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

True, but you don't need a true air craft carrier in a sense to land and take off helicopters from the flight deck for rescue missions. I'm sure that Kiev is pretty big and sturdy enough to hold at least (just my guessing) 6 large Mi-17E types on board. No need for arrestor recovery system for incoming fighter planes during landing, just a big flat top space do.

The big turning point was when China began its expansion and needed more raw material than the country of China could provide from within its own borders. That expansion caused Chinese citizens to spread into areas China had never really visited before. And these areas were some distance away from China.

By the time of the expansion the Kiev class carriers had been converted into floating casinos and were not available for missions in support of Chinese goals and operations in distant lands

No doubt that if the Kiev carriers were still available today they could be used in the helicopter carrier mission
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

By the time of the expansion the Kiev class carriers had been converted into floating casinos and were not available for missions in support of Chinese goals and operations in distant lands

No doubt that if the Kiev carriers were still available today they could be used in the helicopter carrier mission

In the old forum we had a discussion about re-fitting the Kiev & Minsk

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and the conversation carried over to this forum..

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/minsk-kiev-26.html
 
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Franklin

Captain
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Very interesting conversation on the Kiev and Minsk. Well in 2005 people on this forum discussed rather the Kiev and Minsk should be refitted and put back into service. Now we know it didn't happen and it will never happen, but a very interesting conversation nonetheless. Anyway i found these 2 video's on the Kiev and Minsk on Youtube. If ships can talk i wonder what the Kiev and Minsk would say about their current fate ?

[video=youtube;Tpg2aT1Vc0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpg2aT1Vc0I[/video]

[video=youtube;VFifAs-mHkM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFifAs-mHkM&feature=relmfu[/video]
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I would say they are happy, old warship usually get scrapped for metal, some got even worse fate, they became targets.
 

Franklin

Captain
INS Vikramaditya may take more time to come to India

Though Putin is keen on ensuring that the aircraft carrier is ready by year-end

Despite Russian President Vladimir Putin taking an active interest in ensuring that the aircraft carrier Gorshkov is ready by the end of the year, top level Indian sources fear a further six-month delay.

Flight trials — landing of fighter aircraft on the ship’s deck — started late and will have to be suspended later this month due to the onset of near-Arctic conditions in the Russian north. The trials are then expected to resume when the weather relents, most likely in March next year.

But Russian sources said there was a “slight difference in formulation.” The flag-raising ceremony on the gigantic ship will be held on the designated date in December and an Indian crew will start taking over operations.

Cost escalation

“This is what happened with INS Chakra [nuclear powered submarine]. It was given to India two or three months in advance. So when we talk of giving the Gorshkov [now called INS Vikramaditya], it might mean raising the flag and an Indian crew taking over. It won’t reach Indian shores by the end of the year but the crew will be aboard and the official ceremony would have been held,” explained the Russian sources.

“Mr. Putin’s intervention did help and this delay will be an embarrassment to him because he had intervened to get the project back on rails. We will also face an extremely difficult situation because of this,” said Indian government sources. The delivery of the aircraft carrier has been delayed by four years and the refurbishment cost of the partly-gutted ship, given free to India as a goodwill gesture, has almost doubled. This led Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to mention the matter to Mr. Putin when they last met.

Lavrov’s visit

However, the issue is unlikely to figure during Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov’s visit on October 4 but will be on the table when Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s new pointsman on India, arrives here on October 15 to discuss military matters with Defence Minister A.K. Antony.

Despite the higher price India has been forced to pay, officials here maintain that New Delhi will never be able to get a carrier of this size. The cost escalation happened because both sides were in a hurry to seal the deal — the Russian shipyard was facing an acute financial crunch and Indian negotiators were under pressure to sign the contract before the general elections of 2004.

India has one operational aircraft-carrier INS Viraat, purchased second-hand from the British, which will function for another couple of years. According to the Navy, the country should have three aircraft carriers. While two would be deployed on either coastal flanks and beyond, the third could undergo refits. Currently, India is left with no aircraft carrier whenever Viraat has to undergo extensive refits due to its age. India is indigenously building an aircraft carrier, much smaller than the Gorshkov, at Kochi.

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
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Of course, they could start sailing her south now and reach warmer waters before the onset of the artic winter and continue flight tests in warmer climes until turnover in December to India, who could then sail her on down to Cochin.

But that will not happen. If there is any refit work to complete or repair, or outfitting to finish it will have to happen up there where she was built and I expect there is more of that to do, otherwise they would be on schedule and able to do what I just suggested.

Flight quals on an otherwise completed carrier could occur elsewhere, either near Russian bases before December, or near Indian ones after the handover. If I were India, I would want her in my hands and under control of my crew as soon after December 1st as possible...and in a place far to the south where I could use her through all of those months of the Russian northland winter. otherwise they will not see her until May or June!
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Great video of Mig-29K Air Ops on INS Virkamaditya

Best oveall video of air op qualification and testing on the new INS Vikramaditya I have seen to date. They are working her pretty hard getting ready for the turnover in December.

The Indians will already have a full wing of these aircraft ready to go next spring when the Virkam gets there so they are definitley going to field this new carrier with an operational airwing of Mig-29K aircraft before the PLAN can get the Liaoning ready with her J-15s.

Very good video...just wish I understood Russian:

[video=youtube;VKm1OEcncek]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKm1OEcncek[/video]

Sometimes the embedding indicates the video is "unavailable", so here's a link directly to youtube for the video too which I have found always to be there:

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