Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos




So Ark is to be scrapped, Illustrious is to be preserved (believe it when I see it) and according to Lord West, Ark's name will now be free for a new warship... PoW? Fingers crossed!

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Pointblank said:

I would argue that the ex-Varyag won't act as a true aircraft carrier, and likely, it will be same for any follow on Chinese aircraft carrier for a while.

The bulk of the limited experience and exposure the Chinese have to carrier aviation is primarily from the Russian/Soviets. The Russians built their carriers with sea-control in mind, meaning that the carrier is there to protect the rest of the task force rather than the other way around as it is in our navy. It will be a while until the Chinese build and develop tactics for a more USN/RN style carrier.

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I would disagree, China has been studying US carrier ops for more than 20 years and the way they have rebuild the ex-Varyag shows you that they are more inclined to follow US carrier procedures and tactics. But either way it's going to take a very long time before China can operate a carrier battle group as effectively as the US.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

@NikeX
The Strait of Hormuz will not be closed except in a case of military adventurism by the US or by its client Israel. As China can do nothing directly to keep the strait open it will have to have plans ready to institute liquid fuel distribution as I saw practised in Europe when the Suez canal was closed in 1956 and 1973.
@Pointblank
Only a dominant power can use aircraft carriers as the US is doing. When the UK and France tried it against Egypt in 1956 they were called back by the US. I suspect when China has become the most powerful country in the world ( when? ) there will simply be no opportunity to exercise that kind of domination. So Chinese flattops will not play the same role as US flattops for a long time to come and probably never.
And why call the US kind of flattop the only kind of true aircraft carrier.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Obi Wan Russell said:

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So Ark is to be scrapped, Illustrious is to be preserved (believe it when I see it) and according to Lord West, Ark's name will now be free for a new warship... PoW? Fingers crossed!

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sad indeed.. How much equipment has been removed from the Ark Royal? Would it be possible that the UK could still sell or give her to an ally??

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Franklin said:

I would disagree, China has been studying US carrier ops for more than 20 years and the way they have rebuild the ex-Varyag shows you that they are more inclined to follow US carrier procedures and tactics. But either way it's going to take a very long time before China can operate a carrier battle group as effectively as the US.

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Big difference between watching someone else operate and actually having hands on experience. The Chinese likely have had exposure to Russian carrier ops extensively, and that will be the basis of their experience to draw upon.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

delft said:

@NikeX
The Strait of Hormuz will not be closed except in a case of military adventurism by the US or by its client Israel. As China can do nothing directly to keep the strait open it will have to have plans ready to institute liquid fuel distribution as I saw practised in Europe when the Suez canal was closed in 1956 and 1973.

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What about the other areas China now depends upon for vital resources? Specially I am talking about oil from Angola, Sudan and Guinea. How do you see the PLAN carrier figuring in a crisis situation like the interruption of oil flow from those three countries.

Also there is the situation of the millions of Chinese workers in Africa and other parts of the world. As seen in the recent Libyan crisis China was hard pressed to pull its citizens out of unstable areas ahead of the advancing chaos.



Even without aircraft, the Chinese carrier could be used as a "lily-pad" or forward staging base for helicopters to ferry Chinese citizens to safety from dangerous situations. I wonder are Chinese planners seeing this obvious use for their existing carrier?

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I think in reality, the biggest benefit brought by the Chinese carrier in the near future will be port calls and disaster relief operations, which will bring them far more influence than if used in anger.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

NikeX said:

What about the other areas China now depends upon for vital resources? Specially I am talking about oil from Angola, Sudan and Guinea. How do you see the PLAN carrier figuring in a crisis situation like the interruption of oil flow from those three countries.

Also there is the situation of the millions of Chinese workers in Africa and other parts of the world. As seen in the recent Libyan crisis China was hard pressed to pull its citizens out of unstable areas ahead of the advancing chaos.

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Even without aircraft, the Chinese carrier could be used as a "lily-pad" or forward staging base for helicopters to ferry Chinese citizens to safety from dangerous situations. I wonder are Chinese planners seeing this obvious use for their existing carrier?

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You got a point there, but if that's the case why didn't China just used the outdated Russian Kiev as solely a rescue vessel to land helicopters for evacuating missions or even start building a much smaller flat top for that purpose..like Japan's DDH Hyuga class type with escorts and destroyers to protect them? It would be less advanced and less armed than the ex-Varyag of course, but it served its purpose though.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Equation said:

You got a point there, but if that's the case why didn't China just used the outdated Russian Kiev as solely a rescue vessel to land helicopters for evacuating missions or even start building a much smaller flat top for that purpose..like Japan's DDH Hyuga class type with escorts and destroyers to protect them? It would be less advanced and less armed than the ex-Varyag of course, but it served its purpose though.

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My answer would be that the Kiev class carriers were seen only in the context of what they ended up to be and that was as floating resorts. The Varyag is closer to the Chinese dream of a real carrier. Using the Varyag as a lily pad would only be an interim use and only pressed into service during such an emergency such as the evacuation of civilians like what happened in Libya.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

NikeX said:

My answer would be that the Kiev class carriers were seen only in the context of what they ended up to be and that was as floating resorts. The Varyag is closer to the Chinese dream of a real carrier. Using the Varyag as a lily pad would only be an interim use and only pressed into service during such an emergency such as the evacuation of civilians like what happened in Libya.

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True, but you don't need a true air craft carrier in a sense to land and take off helicopters from the flight deck for rescue missions. I'm sure that Kiev is pretty big and sturdy enough to hold at least (just my guessing) 6 large Mi-17E types on board. No need for arrestor recovery system for incoming fighter planes during landing, just a big flat top space do.