Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

The placement of the elevator on the INS Vikramaditya , a Russian design, is ridiculous. It ruins your ability to spot(park) aircraft in the hangar and flight deck. It could disrupt recovery of aircraft. Not a good design by the Russians.

Moving it to deck edge would have been VERY expensive because they would have had to expand the hangar deck over there too.

Exactly.. When the USN re-fitted the the Essex class CVs in the 50's with an angle deck the aft centerpoint elevator was eliminated. There was a plan when the Forrestal class entered SLEP to remove the elevator at the end of the angle deck because during modern day CV operations this elevator is useless.


cv-9-line.gif


note the position of the aircraft elevator aft of the island.
USS Essex CV-9 original configuration.

cv10.gif


Note the re-configuration of the flight deck after the SCB-125 re-fit.
USS Yorktown after SCB-125 re-fit
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

so the result is, it limits the number of aircraft and therefore limits overall sortie rate

in addition it will also effect the turnaround time and the time it takes to move aircraft around

pretty valuable information which can be used to the oppossions advantage
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

The placement of the elevator on the INS Vikramaditya , a Russian design, is ridiculous. It ruins your ability to spot(park) aircraft in the hangar and flight deck. It could disrupt recovery of aircraft. Not a good design by the Russians.



Exactly.. When the USN re-fitted the the Essex class CVs in the 50's with an angle deck the aft centerpoint elevator was eliminated. There was a plan when the Forrestal class entered SLEP to remove the elevator at the end of the angle deck because during modern day CV operations this elevator is useless.


cv-9-line.gif


note the position of the aircraft elevator aft of the island.


cv10.gif


Note the re-configuration of the flight deck after the SCB-125 re-fit.

So basically they have to refit and over haul the entire deck completely, in order to have the steam cats put in place and all other equipment? Man those welders got some mad skills to conduct such a project.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

So basically they have to refit and over haul the entire deck completely, in order to have the steam cats put in place and all other equipment? Man those welders got some mad skills to conduct such a project.

Exactly.

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SCB-27 modernization of Essex/Ticonderoga class aircraft carriers, (CV 9-12, 14-16, 18-20, 31, 33-34, 38-39)
(work completed between 1950 and 1955)

Between 1947 and 1955, fifteen Essex and Ticonderoga class aircraft carriers were thoroughly modernized. The impending arrival of high-performance jet aircraft and nuclear-armed heavy attack bombers had rendered these still rather new ships almost incapable of executing their most vital missions, while the post-World War II financial climate precluded building replacements. Accordingly, a reconstruction program began in Fiscal Year 1948, with the incomplete Oriskany as the prototype. Two more ships were converted the next year, three in FY 1950 and then, with the the Cold War in full bloom, nine more Fiscal Years 1951 to 1953.

Designated SCB-27, the modernization was very extensive, requiring some two years for each carrier. To handle much heavier, faster aircraft, flight deck structure was massively reinforced. Stronger elevators, much more powerful catapults, and new arresting gear was installed. The original four twin 5"/38 gun mounts were removed. The new five-inch gun battery consisted of eight weapons, two on each quarter beside the flight deck. Twin 3"/50 gun mounts replaced the 40mm guns, offering much greater effectiveness through the use of proximity-fuzed ammunition.

A distinctive new feature was a taller, shorter island. To better protect aircrews, ready rooms were moved to below the armored hangar deck, with a large escalator on the starboard side amidships to move airmen up to the flight deck. Internally, aviation gasoline storage was increased by nearly half and its pumping capacity enhanced. Also improved were electrical generating power, fire protection, and weapons stowage and handling facilities. All this added considerable weight: displacement increased by some twenty percent. Blisters were fitted to the hull sides to compensate, widening waterline beam by eight to ten feet. The ships also sat lower in the water, and maximum speed was slightly diminished.

The modernized ships came in two flavors, the first nine (SCB-27A) having a pair of H 8 hydraulic catapults, the most powerful available in the late '40s. The final six received the SCB-27C update, with much more potent steam catapults, one of two early 1950s British developments that greatly improved aircraft carrier potential. These six were somewhat heavier, and wider, than their sisters. While still in the shipyards, three of the SCB-27Cs were further modified under the SCB-125 project, receiving the second British concept, the angled flight deck, plus an enclosed "hurricane bow" and other improvements. These features were so valuable that they were soon back-fitted to all but one (Lake Champlain) of the other SCB-27 ships. The fourteen fully modernized units were the "journeymen" aviation ships of the late 1950s and 1960s, providing the Navy with much of its attack aircraft carrier (CVA) force and, ultimately, all its anti-submarine warfare support aircraft carriers (CVS).

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SCB-125 modernization of Essex/Ticonderoga class aircraft carriers, (CVA/CVS 9-12, 14-16, 18-20, 31, 33-34, & 38)
(work completed between 1955 and 1959)

Between 1954 and 1959, fourteen modernized Essex and Ticonderoga class aircraft carriers of the SCB-27 type were further updated under the SCB-125 program. This work, incorporating new features not known or accepted when the earlier scheme was originated in the later 1940s, greatly enhanced seakeeping and high-performance aircraft operations. Perhaps the most significant new attribute was the British-developed "angled flight deck", in which the carrier's aircraft landing area was slanted several degrees off to port, enabling aircraft to easily "go around" in the event of recovery difficulties. The benefits this brought to carrier aviation operating safety can hardly be overemphasized.

Another notable SCB-125 alteration included moving the after aircraft elevator from the centerline to the starboard deck edge, greatly facilitating aircraft handling. In fact, this change had already been made on the last six of the SCB-27s, the steam-catapult SCB-27C type, the final three of which received both modernization schemes in the same shipyard session. Blending the flight deck's forward end into the upper hull form, creating the so-called "hurricane" bow, constituted the final significant change. This concept, already adopted for the Forrestal class "super carriers" then under construction, improved seakeeping in rough seas. It also provided a covered location for the carriers' secondary conning station, whose portholes, visible across the upper bow plating, were a distinctive feature of the refitted ships.

Though the SCB-125 program significantly changed the ships' appearance, the scope of the work was much less than that of SCB-27 and generally took seven or eight months' shipyard time, rather than the two years or more that was typical of the earlier modernization. The exception was Oriskany, the SCB-27 prototype and the last to get the SCB-125 treatment. Uniquely, she had her hydraulic catapults replaced with more powerful steam types and received many other improvements in a reconstruction that lasted twenty-eight months in 1957-59.

As quickly as new carriers and steam catapult conversions joined the fleet during the later '50s, the seven SCB-125 hydraulic catapult ships were reassigned to the anti-submarine mission, replacing unmodernized carriers. Four of the seven steam catapult carriers also became ASW ships during the 1960s, though some of these operated very little, if at all, in that role. Most of the ASW ships received SQS-23 long-range sonars in 1960-66. Nine ships left active service in 1969-71, as major reductions in fleet strength were implemented. Three more decommissioned in 1972-74. Hancock and Oriskany lasted into the middle-'70s, and the veteran Lexington remained operational as training carrier until 1991. All four of the Essex class museum ships are of the modernized SCB-27/SCB-125 configuration.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

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[video=youtube;MhUnEFlTqsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhUnEFlTqsc[/video]
[video=youtube;E4ASYpT5HFk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ASYpT5HFk[/video]
Navantia launched at its Ferrol facilities, the second amphibious ship for the Royal Australian Navy. The Ship’s launching lady, Mrs. Maureen Banks, as well as the Chief of the Royal Australian Navy, Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, together with representatives of the Commonwealth of Australia, BAE Systems, SEPI and Navantia have attended the event.

Construction of the “Adelaide” started with the Steel Cutting ceremony on the 2nd of February 2010, followed by the keel laying on the 18th of February 2011.
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I couldn't find an official video from Navantia or RAN.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

[video=youtube;16QoOtu30n4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16QoOtu30n4[/video]
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

so the result is, it limits the number of aircraft and therefore limits overall sortie rate

in addition it will also effect the turnaround time and the time it takes to move aircraft around

pretty valuable information which can be used to the oppossions advantage
Actually, the limiting factor is the way it really hampers deck operations in terms of launching and recovering aircraft. That is what principally limits the overall sortie rate.

The hangar size effects things inheritantly, as does the deck size by determing the overall number of aircraft that can be carried, but without the ability to move, recover, and launch aircraft seemlessly, no matter how many aircraft you have, you are going to be hampered when having to bring aircraft up from below decks onto active portions of the flight dec...which means those operations have to stop until the aircraft are out of the way...which means less take-offs and landings.

Adelaide Launched.

I couldn't find an official video from Navantia or RAN.
Hmm...so both are launched. The Spanish facilites are moving quickly...but the major outfitting of the island, sensors, weapons, etc. is still occurring.

I wonder how far along the Canbera is right now. Haven't seen any recent pics of her and she was launched, what, a year or more ago now?
 
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navyreco

Senior Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

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Air&Cosmos , July 6, about the loss of the M24:
...the engines flow of the F18 would have disturbed the pressure and temperature sensors located on the nose of the Rafale, sending inconsistent information to the flight control software [...] There is a possibility that the Rafale consequently went into a flat spin. In normal conditions a Rafale can not get into such a Flat Spin but with incorrect data sent to the flight computer anything is theoretically possible. There is even a "spin" mode that the Pilot may engage in such situation but it was too low already, as the pilot ejected below 3,000 feet

Article also says the pilot was briefly taken to the US carrier first.

Sounds awfully similar to what happens in Top Gun to me... And there I was thinking those things only happen in Hollywood.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

If you go to Jeff Heads favorite website, shipbucket,(inside joke) you will see a similar rendering of that Spru-can CV design..

Aus20CV320Spruance_20Melbourne20120.gif


Alternate Universe/Aus CV3 Spruance_ Melbourne 1 AU.gif

Site design Copyright ©2008-2010 by Ian B. Roberts. All rights reserved. Drawing by shiplover.

Imagine if this design of a USN Sea Control ship ever came to fruition..Humm??

Click on the picture and select view image for a larger view.

Six Sea Harriers or JSF. 2 Osprey. 6+ SH-60 variants. abot 650feet(200m) in length just about displacing 20,000 tons.

USA20CVS20Sea20Control20Ship_20Cabo.gif


Alternate Universe/USA CVS Sea Control Ship_ Cabot 1 AU.gif. Site design Copyright ©2008-2010 by Ian B. Roberts. All rights reserved. Drawing by shiplover

My favorite.. I may have posted this at one time.

USA20CV-8020CVF_20Reprisal20120AU.gif


Alternate Universe/USA CV-80 CVF_ Reprisal 1 AU.gif
Site design Copyright ©2008-2010 by Ian B. Roberts. All rights reserved. Drawing by Wakazashi & Obi Wan Russell

Shipbucket is a fair-use organization, paying respect to the assumed copyright laws of intellectual property. Any party may use, alter, or reproduce the images and products located on the Shipbucket Photobucket account or forums so long as they offer proper credit to the drawing's original author(s).
 
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