asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
whats the advantage of having 2 twin islands on the deck?
Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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whats the advantage of having 2 twin islands on the deck?
Specifically in the CVF design, the main Gas Turbines are located in the sponsons directly under the islands, they provide electrical power for the ship not mechanical power as in previous ships. Putting them here instead of in the traditional location deep in the hull means shorter intake and exhaust ducting for a start (the Invincibles' hangars were severely constrained by the need for this ducting resulting in the 'dumbell' shape). Easy replacement from that position too. As both locations need exhaust ducting, ie a funnel, but were physically separated by the forward lift, this lead to two separate islands to house the uptakes (added together they would constitute a single island anyway in terms of deck space. Two islands allows for a degree of redundancy and battle damage resistance, as although the forward island primarily is for conning the ship and the after island houses FLYCO (Flying Control), both islands can take on the duties of each other in an emergency (the aft island has a fully functional bridge and the forward island has a backup flyco). In an age of precision guided munitions, a carrier with only one island can be disabled with one 'lucky/well aimed' hit. You'd have to try twice as hard to mission-kill a CVF in this context.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
why has no one thought of this before?>its only one of its kind, or is UK just too advanced compared to everyone else 
why has no one thought of this before?>its only one of its kind, or is UK just too advanced compared to everyone else
Well the British have a reputation for original thinking, usually cashed in on by other countries of course! you could also ask why no one else thought of the following before we did:
The Steam Catapult,
The Angled Deck,
The Mirror Landing sight,
The Ski Jump Ramp, and...
The Aircraft Carrier itself!
as well as sundry items like the Steam Turbine, the Gas Turbine/Jet Engine, Penicyllin, The electric light bulb (Edison bought the patent of Swann!) The Dreadnought Battleship... the list goes on. We are very good at ideas, lousy at commercial exploitation!
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
true that
Americans for thier F35 had to study extensively the Harrier
btw are we using E2 Hawkeye for carrier AWACS?
Americans for thier F35 had to study extensively the Harrier
btw are we using E2 Hawkeye for carrier AWACS?
Lockheed Martin brought BAe Systems on board for the F-35 specifically for their experience in STOVL combat aircraft design, since the US partner of BAe was McDonnell Douglas, now part of Boeing, LockMart's rival in the JSF contest and therefore unlikley to cooperate on the design!
No word on Hawkeye, would obviously love it but currently the project (previously called MASC, now renamed Crowsnest) has no funding at present, and will probably end up with the Cereberus radars from the Sea King ASaC7s being transferred to surplus Merlin HM1s (8-12 available, airframes not scheduled for upgrade to HM2).
As far as I know, the UK was still looking at using the Sea Kings AEW or their replacement, which looked like it was going to the Merlin according to initial contracts let for the MASC requisition.
However, with deciding to go CATOBAR discussions about a V-22 option, and particularly an E-2 option have surfaced again, particularly since the US, France, and the UK would all then be common.
I do not know if any new decisions have been made. Perhaps Obi Wan if he reads this will know and enlighten us.
However, with deciding to go CATOBAR discussions about a V-22 option, and particularly an E-2 option have surfaced again, particularly since the US, France, and the UK would all then be common.
I do not know if any new decisions have been made. Perhaps Obi Wan if he reads this will know and enlighten us.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
V-22 is expensive though, if they are hard pressed for E2 Hawkeyes that maybe a push, although V22 would look awesome on QE Carriers!
As I said in my previous post, Crowsnest is currently un funded, though the cheapest option on the table will be the aforementioned Merlin/Cereberus combo, as both the airframes and the radars are already paid for and in service. The UK Sea King Fleet (all models) is scheduled for retirement in 2016, an arbitrary figure not related to the actual useful remaining life of the airframes. The usefulness of the 'Sea King Whiskey' as they are known in service (ASaC7) has been amply demonstrated above and beyond normal carrier based ops, and the RN has in effect partially decoupled it's AEW capability from the carriers (though not completely) by reforming the two operational 'flights' (849A and 849B) into full Naval Air sqns (854NAS and 857NAS) a few years ago, allowing them to be deployed into the Stan and the Lybia campaign, flying from desert airbases and HMS Ocean respectively. To my eyes, this clearly signals AEW as a capability the RN will not risk losing like it did last time carriers were axed. Heliborne AEW can be deployed from any ship in the fleet of Frigate size upwards, and partners the T45 very well in task force defence. Provided the carriers enter service as hoped AEW aircraft will be part of the air group, but even with the CATOBAR configuration, I don't see anything other than Merlin ASaC being provided before the mid 2020s simply because nothing else can be afforded in the meantime. What money is available will have to go on completing the carriers and buying the fighters first.
Don't get me wrong, I want Hawkeye! But it certainly should not be Hawkeye or nothing, as that would truly be a disaster. Merlin ASaC will be more than adequate for our needs for the next fifteen or so years, maintaining skills and the principle of AEW as integral to fleet defence.
Priority one: Get the carriers! (2016 onwards)
Priority two: Get the fighters! (2018-2020 onwards)
Priority three: Hawkeye! (2025-)
Amen to every bit of that Obi Wan.
Get the carriers, then get the fighters. You already have an AEW capability...improve on it as soon as you can afford to do so.
It sure will be nice one day to see the Hawkeye (the most modern variant at the time) stationed on those QE carriers. I hope I live to see it, and believe if it happens in the next 20-25 years, that I will! HooHah!
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