Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Tasman

Junior Member
Yes it is. I'm happy this class is moving foward...

I know this is a sore subject in "Oz" but>>>>>What is the status of the RN LHD programme?

The decision on the Australian LHD is expected in July so hopefully we will soon know whether the Spanish BPE, favoured by most, is selected ahead of the French Mistral. The Spanish ship is more capable but the French design requires a smaller crew. That would help its case as manpower, or rather the lack of it, is a concern in the RAN at present. I may be proven wrong but (like most others) I predict that the Spanish design will be selected.

The possibility of operating VSTOL aircraft from these ships seems remote at this stage as no one in defence or government is even discussing this possibility in the public domain at present. I am sure the navy will keep quiet about this issue until well after the contracts for the ship are in place as it will be keen not to 'spook' politicians with suggestions that the ships could be used as aircraft carriers. This still seems to be a taboo subject in Defence circles. If the F-35 is confirmed as the RAAF's next fighter the batch of aircraft for the final squadron will not be ordered for some time so an early decision re the F-35B is not required. As I said in an earlier post, any fixed wing aircraft flown from the LHDs are likely to be operated by the RAAF, or at best a joint squadron, for political reasons. It also seems likely that the RAAF will not be at all keen on the VSTOL version of the JSF so it would need considerable army and navy pressure to persuade government to acquire this version.

Cheers
 

Scratch

Captain
There's already a tenix site up that promotes the BPE on the web, take a look, I think it's worth it:
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With the Cavour on trial and the BPE under construction (still found no better pics), I'm now waiting for the CVF to be started.
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I've found these very recent and terrfic pictures of HMS Ark Royal. RN fans, when will the Ark Royal be retired or sold off??? Not before the CVF is in service..I hope!

1) The Royal Navy's flagship HMS Ark Royal is steered between the bascules of the Thames Flood Barrier on the River Thames in London, Wednesday June 13, 2007, on her way to Greenwich, where she will be moored during a visit to London to mark the 25th anniversary of the end of the Falklands conflict.

2) The Royal Navy's flagship HMS Ark Royal is moored on the River Thames alongside the Royal Naval College at Greenwich, London, Wednesday June 13, 2007, where she will be moored during a visit to the capital to mark the 25th anniversary of the end of the Falklands conflict. At upper right is Greenwich Royal Observatory, the source of Greenwich Mean Time.
 

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Tasman

Junior Member
I've found these very recent and terrfic pictures of HMS Ark Royal. RN fans, when will the Ark Royal be retired or sold off??? Not before the CVF is in service..I hope!

According to the RN website "HMS Ark Royal is planned to remain in active service until 2015 when the next generation of carriers will enter service."

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Cheers
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
According to the RN website "HMS Ark Royal is planned to remain in active service until 2015 when the next generation of carriers will enter service."

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Cheers

Thank you. Why was the Invincible retired so much earlier than the Ark Royal? Was it strictly a matter of money or was the plan all along to cut back the RN?

Personally I see no reason ,other than material condition, why the Invincible should not remain in service for many years to come..
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Thank you. Why was the Invincible retired so much earlier than the Ark Royal? Was it strictly a matter of money or was the plan all along to cut back the RN?

Personally I see no reason ,other than material condition, why the Invincible should not remain in service for many years to come..

The original plan was to withdraw Invincible in 2010, Illustrious in 2012 and Ark Royal in 2015, ie 30 years after each was commissioned. Invincible was withdrawn purely for budgetary reasons in 2005 with the concession that she would remain in reserve until 2010, so don't expect her to be sold before that. The paying off dates for the other two will now be tied to the commissioning dates of the CVFs, and extending their service lives by a few years should not present any major problems as they have plenty of hull life left and have been well maintained.

I'd always assumed the original schedule was drawn up so that Invincible's crew could provide the core crew for CVF 01, and Illustrious's crew would likewise provide the core crew for CVF 02, so Invincible's premature decommissioning has put a spanner in the works to a degree. The current Administration has no idealogical objection to carriers per se, as they simply have no understanding of Military and Naval Matters at all. Most of the current crop of Labour MPs and ministers probably are unaware of the 1966 'Healy Axe', so drawing comparisons is a little artificial. They see things purely from a financial point of view, and as the Navy has made the CVF project their number one priority any future cuts will most likely fall elsewhere.
 

Scratch

Captain
Just something that bothers me.
How much payload, if any, would a F-35C have to sacrifice compared to a F-35B taking off from a skyjump CVF?
Can the -35B use it's afterburner in STO/VTO when the nozzle is angled?
And how difficult is just the fitting of arresting cables and gear?
 

Tasman

Junior Member
BPE selected by Australia

It was announced officially this morning that the Navantia BPE design has been selected for the RAN's new amphibious force. Two ships will be built. This is great news for the RAN and I expect that the next few years will now see some lobbying for F-35Bs to enable them to provide organic fixed wing air support for embarked forces (as well as enabling them to operate in a sea control role). I don't expect any mention of F-35s until the contract is signed sealed and delivered, as the navy won't want a political storm about 'aircraft carriers' before the coming election.

Here is the Minister's press release:

$3 BILLION AMPHIBIOUS SHIPS WILL

STRENGTHEN ADF, BOOST AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRY



The Australian Defence Force (ADF) will obtain one of the largest and most advanced amphibious deployment systems in the world following the Government’s selection today of a preferred tenderer for the supply of two amphibious ships.



Subject to successful contract negotiations, the preferred tenderer is Tenix. Defence will now enter negotiations with Tenix leading to a contract for delivery of the ships between 2012 and 2014.



At a cost of approximately $3 billion, this decision will greatly enhance Australia’s ability to deploy forces in strength when needed or to provide assistance in time of natural disaster. With their integrated helicopters and watercraft the ships will be able to land over a thousand personnel by sea and air, along with their vehicles, the new Abrams tanks, artillery and supplies. Each ship will also be equipped with medical facilities, including two operating theatres and a hospital ward.



In order to provide value for money, both tenderers – Australian companies – proposed partial overseas builds with a high degree of Australian fitout. Much of the combat and communications systems integration and installation - the ‘smart stuff’ - will be done by Australian industry, which will be able to make the most of project opportunities in the leading edge technologies – electronics, systems engineering and integration, and design development.



So that we could ensure the best possible outcomes for Australian industry and the ADF, the Government decided to consider the Amphibious Ship and Air Warfare Destroyer proposals in concert. Our decisions today mean that for decades into the future Navy’s ships will be backed by world-class industry support from Australia’s naval engineering and electronics industries. They also mean that hundreds of smaller and medium enterprises can now look to the future with confidence.



The Government has ensured the Landing Helicopter Dock contract will lay the groundwork for Australian industry to provide full in-service support for the life of the ships. This will provide a steady and reliable source of demand on industry that, over ship life, will amount to several times the value of the actual construction program.



This decision shows that the procurement reforms the Government introduced in 2003 are working.



Approximately one quarter of the construction of the amphibious ships will take place in Australia. The construction of the superstructure and the majority of the fitout will occur in Melbourne, with an estimated value of up to $500 million. The majority of combat system design and integration work will take place in Adelaide, worth up to $100 million for the South Australia economy. There will also be further work contracted to other states.



The amphibious ship project reflects our insistence on real world business procedures, especially tight governance, disciplined budgeting and strong risk management.



Our service men and women deserve the very best equipment to do their jobs. These ships will provide Navy and Army personnel with the satisfaction of operating state-of-the-art sea, air and land systems in the defence of Australia; but also with the ability to provide large-scale humanitarian assistance, at home or to our neighbours, in time of natural disaster.

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Cheers
 

szbd

Junior Member
Thank you. Why was the Invincible retired so much earlier than the Ark Royal? Was it strictly a matter of money or was the plan all along to cut back the RN?

Personally I see no reason ,other than material condition, why the Invincible should not remain in service for many years to come..

I think mainly about money. Just see what the first type 45 will equipt for the time being. It seems RN do have a serious problem on funding, which I can not understand why. What is the UK government thinking?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
BPE selected by Australia

It was announced officially this morning that the Navantia BPE design has been selected for the RAN's new amphibious force. Two ships will be built. This is great news for the RAN and I expect that the next few years will now see some lobbying for F-35Bs to enable them to provide organic fixed wing air support for embarked forces (as well as enabling them to operate in a sea control role). I don't expect any mention of F-35s until the contract is signed sealed and delivered, as the navy won't want a political storm about 'aircraft carriers' before the coming election.

Here is the Minister's press release:



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Cheers
Glad to see the BPEs, far better than the French design IMHO.

I know the F-100 will greatly increase the RANs current capabilities and so am very happy to see the RAN get such an increase.

However, I am still sorry they did not choose the Burke derivitive because I think in the long run, those vessels would not only be more capable from the outset...but also in terms of future enhancements over their 30+ years of service.

Just the same, the F-100 design and the BPEs will significantly upgrade the Australian capability...significantly and I am glad to see it going forward.

Here's to hoping for F-35s!
 
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