Aerodynamics thread
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
- Start date
Or here's a great idea,,,you could stop trolling, stop the name calling and ad-hominem attacks when other posters answer your questions in a polite and professional manner, and try to show a little respect to your fellow posters. The Eng as well as others have been very patient and kind, don't suppose you would try to meet us halfway????? brat
Well going post-stall is only useful in a low-energy state as a last-ditch maneuver, but it's not what anyone wants. They could've introduced new F-16 / F-15 blocks with canards/ TVC, but they didn't as the USAF (at that time) didn't believe in post-stall fights. I don't say you'll lose when going post-stall, it's nice to be able to fight in that regime when needed, but there are also, in my opinion, safer ways to kill a target at a low energy state off your nose, which is using HOBS missiles.
Getting into a post-stall fight can be dangerous as even "antique" F-15s can kill you. Therefore I state post-stall/super-maneuverability is overrated. Not useless, but also not THE decisive factor. It's the total package. Eurofighters can't go with the Raptor into post-stall/super-maneuverability, but they can kill you with a HOBS missile if they can't point the nose quickly into the right direction, so there are more means to an end.
Every well-trained pilot/airforce will use their assets at their strenghts. Eurofighters, Rafales, J-20s, PAK-Fa's etc. So judging whether or not being able to go post-stall is one-sided.
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There's an overemphasis on using TVC for post stall, but where TVC is actually most useful in a 5th generation design is at higher altitudes and higher speeds, where traditional control surfaces are less effective. There's merit to adopting TVC for those purposes.
Very good lazy, former Air Force Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz stated and I repeat, "the F-22 Raptor can maintain 6gs at 50,000 ft, what other airplane can do that", the answer of course is NONE, that is a benefit of OVT, Supermaneuverability, and Awesome Thrust, that is why the F-22 remains the target of all the internet "experts", and a few disgruntled wonks who've gone and managed to get their sorry butts "shot down" by a Raptor driver... Make no mistake scythe, the F-35 is not a Raptor, has neither OVT, nor is it billed as "super-maneuverable", but it will have a HMS, and off bore sight missles.... on the other hand, any body can have a great day, and anybody can have a really bad day. Never underestimate your opponent, or over-estimate your own talent.
If you're going to a gun-fight, take a rifle! billymagg or errr Air Force Brat
I am not trolling at all, and you are trolling now accusing me without trying really know whaty said.
I never said canards are bad or inferior, or is not difficult to calculate wing area of an aircraft you have only pictures, or aircraft designers did not need experimentation.
Canards are good when the conditions are needed, when the need require them, better than LEVCONs?
No they are not, worse no they are not, it depend in what the designer wants.
are canards better than horizontal aft tails? no they are not all depends in what the designer wants in the combination and system his aircraft has
Can you calculate the wing area of J-31 and J-20? yes you can there are formulas to do that, but is very difficult to know the airfoil type and the exact dimensions of these aircraft.
Lockheed Martin has some types of airfoils for F-35 and F-22, these are not very different from the ones J-20 or PAKFA use, can Lockheed Martin calculate the airfoil and wing area and have a very good approximation of the J-20 real capabilities? yes they can
Do you understand what i said?
You got upset with me because i told you everything is math and what i said is true, engineering is math, from Chemistry to physics you need math in an aircraft even the economist needs math.
Because i told you experimentation has a language and that is math, all the models correct or incorrect use math, the designers and engineers do math all the time even to calculate the buffeting problems the F-35 has, even if the go back to the wind tunnel they use math.
You got angry at me because i told you being a pilot does not make you know everything, aviation is and always has been a collective endevour, so in reality no one knows everything about a single aircraft, all aircraft companies have departments where specialists do know only certain things and only the ones related to their field of expertise.
So you have to be humble too and do not call me troll, have also humility, you are a pilot good, but it does not make you all knowing
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It is not over rated. the people that say is overrated is when their aircraft do not have it, but of course is not the only solution to different problems.
Jamming, stealth, weapons and tactics can help you to mitigated the lack of post-stall/super-maneuverability in an aircraft= F-35
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Energy management is the name of the game, take-off, landing, or fighting your aircraft, and while it is unlikely that anyone will go post-stall intentionally in a furr-ball, the ability to continue to fight your aircraft, launch, and leave is still fun. Ideally the F-22 will engage BVR at a very high speed and from a very high altitude, from that vantage, it holds four aces, the idea that because the F-22 has never gone "guns up", therefore its not combat tested is pure ignorance, as the USAF and the other US services train like the "real thing" and you can get just as dead in Red Flag or Top Gun.....
Even now you are accusing me, you have been insolent, misleading, verbose, and you can't put a cogent thought on paper, I have no respect for a "troll" and you sir fit that definition to a T for "troll". So you might start with an apology to all those you have wrongly accused, and "English" sir is the language of the Sino Defense Forum. If you can't explain your math with a cogent and thoughted explanation, you are talking only to hear yourself blather....now try a little respect for your elders and you might receive some in return. My first posts to your were a kindness, you should go back and read them, after reviewing your posts and watching you abuse your forum mates I am just disgusted, yes I am angry, not at your math, but your total lack of respect for others. brat out!
I gave you the formula, but if you want to remain upset and angry, is up to you, the first sign of being right is remain calm and do not get upset, you are not right otherwise you will try to keep the harmony instead of continue accusing me and pretending you were nice but later you called me troll and calling me troll is okay.
For me call me as you wish and blame me as you wish, i gave you formula and i told you what i said, more than tha i can not, sorry i do need to please you, i just need to please what is right