AEGIS and AEGIS Like escort combatants of the World

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Jura said:

From what I've read, the Japanese strategy would be to use 19DDs together with Atagos (96 cells) / Kongos (89 cells, yeah, strange number / Hyugas (16 cells) etc. and I hope they all could shoot targets illuminated by the 19DD's FCS-3 radar!

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Well, if they indeed have Cooperative Engagement, then my guess is that the AEGIS vessels would probably handle the long range engagements, and then the ATEC would probably handle the closer-in engagement directing the ESSMs. Finally, they would each resort to their own individual CIWS as a final resort for any leakers.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

shen said:

ad hominem.

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" A: "All rodents are mammals, but a weasel isn't a rodent, so it can't be a mammal."
B: "I'm sorry, but I'd prefer to trust the opinion of a trained zoologist on this one."

B's argument is ad hominem: he is attempting to counter A not by addressing his argument, but by casting doubt on A's credentials. Note that B is polite and not at all insulting. "

address the argument, not the person please. stay on topic.

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it's quite valid. Jeff has been on this forum a long time and have always given very good insights into naval matters. There are reasons why naval shipbuilder design their ships a certain way. They have to make trade-offs in their designs. We are not privy to everything they have under consideration. So I would advise anyone new to this forum and don't have technical background (my bad if you do) to read more of what more senior members have to say.

At the end of the day, it's better if we learn from each other rather than getting into a contest of who can argue better. And I think we all have things we can learn from Jeff and others who have some background in this industry.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Jeff Head said:

Well, if they indeed have Cooperative Engagement, then my guess is that the AEGIS vessels would probably handle the long range engagements, and then the ATEC would probably handle the closer-in engagement directing the ESSMs. Finally, they would each resort to their own individual CIWS as a final resort for any leakers.

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I meant that if (in some unlikely scenario) 19DD ran out of ESSMs, then the ships around it would start shooting at illuminated targets (and not just wait being hit)!

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Jura said:

I meant that if (in some unlikely scenario) 19DD ran out of ESSMs, then the ships around it would start shooting at illuminated targets (and not just wait being hit)!

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I see. Well yes, absolutely. They would use the 19DDs combat suite and cooperative engagement capabilities to their fullest. Wherever she was best suited to guide/control, she would do so.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

There was this discussion here about how high the fire-control radar of 19DD should be (or should have been) placed, so I checked, among other ships, the Royal Navy Type 45 Destroyer, with the Sampson some 30 meters atop. But ... no torpedo tubes, no anti-ship missiles, no cruise missiles, no BMD, no gun for guided projectiles, and, what's important in the context of sea-skimming missiles: no CIWS until recently (if at all)!

I hope I can post images, just one:

Would be nice if the Koreans and Japanese were included (Jeff please

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Jura said:

There was this discussion here about how high the fire-control radar of 19DD should be (or should have been) placed, so I checked, among other ships, the Royal Navy Type 45 Destroyer, with the Sampson some 30 meters atop. But ... no torpedo tubes, no anti-ship missiles, no cruise missiles, no BMD, no gun for guided projectiles, and, what's important in the context of sea-skimming missiles: no CIWS until recently (if at all)!

I hope I can post images, just one:

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Would be nice if the Koreans and Japanese were included (Jeff please

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Here you go, Jura:


Nice chart. But I think the missile quantities for the Burke IIA are not really accurate. Probably would be at least 48 LR SAMS, up to 96 ESSMs and 24 Cruise missiles which will include land attack and anti-shipping (soon).

I also think that info about their sonars, battle management systems, and particularly about the range and number of targest they can track should be included.

I would also like to see the Type 52C, Type 52D, the Kolkatas, the Se Jongs, Akizuki, Hobarts, and Ticos included.

Perhaps I will make a chart myself.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Here several nice view

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

FORBIN said:

Here several nice view

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Those are very nice pics of 115. I particularly like these two:


All four have now been launched. The first two are already commissioned, the second two are in trials and will both be commissioned in 2014.. Here they all are:


Very nice and very capable vessels.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Bltizo said:

This ship is underarmed with only 32 VLS cells for its size no matter how you cut it, but one of its primary roles is to guard JMSDF's aegis ships anyway. In that mould, if you quad pack all 32 cells with ESSM, you effectively have a very large frigate with great endurance and ability to engage multiple sea skimming targets with its beamforming aesas for illumination.

It isn't a very "well balanced" design, but ships like Nansen are underarmed as well. They simply accentuate other capabilities rather than raw firepower

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Hi everyone I dropped by to give some info that are written in Japanese.I am no expert but I do follow alot of stuff in Japanese which is my native tongue.

First of all a little clarification on the Akizuki class weaponry, JMSDF was considering to develop a ship based type 99 air to air missile (AAM-4) that has a greater range then the ESSM but at the end they adopted the ESSM due to budgetary constraints.
Now the interesting part is TRDI was also developing at around the same time(from FY2000) a Ducted Rocket Engine(DRE) version of the AAM-4 which will enhance range further without compromising size. There is no schedule released on when this missile will go into service and TRDI is still testing this new technology but once completed they will probably again consider a ship launch version of this enhanced missile.

Specs. of AAM-4

• Length: 3,667 mm
• Diameter: 203 mm
• Wing span: 800 mm
• Weight: 222 kg
• Guidance: data link + active radar
• Range: 100 km (AAM-4), 120km (AAM-4B)
• Speed: Mach 4 – 5

With the DRE version of the AAM-4 the Akizuki class will have long enough teeth without need of adopting SM-6 as their long range SAMs.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Interesting -- is the intention to produce a surface launched missile based off AAM-4 that can achieve SM-6 ranges, or an air launched AAM based off AAM-4?

I find it very difficult to imagine an AMRAAM sized missile having a slant range of over 200km. Flipside, is that if an AMRAAM sized missile can achieve that kind of range eventually, then an SM-6 sized missile could theoretically be able to achieve many times that (whether they have the electronics to engage such a target is another matter of course).