9 Hong Kong tourist dead in Manila hostage shootout

noone536 said:

just really weird that they call themselve swat since it stands for speacial weapon and tactics, it seem none of these aplly

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siegecrossbow said:

I really don't see what is wrong with sending Chinese special forces in to protect Chinese citizens given how badly they handled this situation. Checkout a video of how an ordinary PAP woman handled a hostage situation in Guangdong recently.

What do you mean assuming Chinese Special forces are better? They've won numerous times in International Special Forces Tournaments and have been trained hunting down well armed drug-smugglers on the China-Myanmar borders. Even if they are no Mossad you won't find them breaking into buses with hammers!

I do agree that the racial smudging against the Filipinos is ridiculous. The corrupt government is clearly at fault here, not the people. The Filipino police is only a projection of governmental inefficiency and the problem needs to be solved from its roots.

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s002wjh said:

different place has different meaning.


i thought in that country SWAT = Sorry We Aren't Trained?:coffee:

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rhino123 said:

My opinion is that international community should pressured the Philippines to upgrade their police forces, sent them overseas to friendly nations for training and buy better equipments for these forces.

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solarz said:

Why bother? Just issue travel advisories to the Philippines. If Philippines want to keep their tourism industry, they'll do whatever it takes to get their act together. If some people want to travel to Philippines despite the advisory, it's their choice.

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bingo said:

Exactly. That's the right thing to do.

However, it should also be pointed out that general law and order condition is the issue. The killings were not directed at chinese, in particular.

The Filipino hostage taker had nothing particularly against chinese or HK citizens.

He could have also taken US, Japanese or Nigerian tourists as hostage ... his cause was totally different. (off course, neither the cause nor the method used was noble .. that's not in dispute any ways).

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Ten things the Philippines bus siege police got wrong

A security analyst who has worked in counter-terrorism with the British Army and Scotland Yard, Charles Shoebridge, says the officers involved in Manila's bus siege showed great courage - but they were not properly trained or equipped for the task.

Here are 10 areas where, in his view, they could have done better.

1. Determination


Philippine police end Manila bus hijack
The first officers who tried to storm the bus were driven out by gunshots from the hostage taker, former policeman Rolando Mendoza. "They showed great courage to go on board. It's very crowded, just one aisle down the middle of the bus. But once you get on board it's not unexpected you are going to be fired at. Squads like this have to be made up of very special people, specially trained and selected for their characteristics of courage, determination and aggression. In this case they acted as 99% of the population would have, which was to turn round and get out. They didn't seem to have the necessary determination and aggression to follow the attack through."

2. Lack of equipment
The police spent a long time smashing the windows of the bus, whereas explosive charges (known as frame charges) would have knocked in windows and doors instantly. "They had no ladders to get through the windows. They smashed the windows but didn't know what to do next," Mr Shoebridge says. "They almost looked like a group of vandals." Their firearms were also inappropriate - some had pistols, some had assault rifles. Ideally they would have carried a short submachine gun, suitable for use in confined spaces.

3. Lost opportunity to disarm the gunman

Mendoza's gun was not always raised
There were numerous opportunities to restrain the gunman, Mr Shoebridge believes. "The negotiators were so close to him, and he had his weapon hanging down by his side. He could have been disabled without having to kill him."

4. Lost opportunity to shoot the gunman
The video of the drama also shows there were occasions when the gunman was standing alone, during the course of the day, and could have been shot by a sharpshooter. "You are dealing with an unpredictable and irrational individual. The rule should be that if in the course of negotiations an opportunity arises to end the situation decisively, it should be taken," Mr Shoebridge says. Either this possibility did not occur to the officers in charge, he adds, or they considered it and decided to carry on talking.

5. Satisfying the gunman's demands
"I wondered why the authorities just didn't give in to all of his demands," says Charles Shoebridge. "A promise extracted under force is not a promise that you are required to honour. Nobody wants to give in to the demands of terrorists, but in a situation like this, which did not involve a terrorist group, or release of prisoners, they could have just accepted his demands. He could be reinstated in the police - and then be immediately put in prison for life for hostage taking." The Philippines authorities did in fact give in to the gunman's demands, but too little, too late. One message promised to review his case, while he wanted it formally dismissed. A second message reinstating him as a police officer only arrived after the shooting had started.

6. Televised proceedings
The gunman was able to follow events on television, revealing to him everything that was going on around him. This was a "crucial defect in the police handling", Mr Shoebridge says. He adds that police should always consider putting a barrier or screen around the area, to shield the scene from the cameras and keep the hostage taker in the dark.

7. No element of surprise
It was clear to the gunman what the police were doing at all times, not only because the whole incident was televised, but also because they moved "laboriously slowly", Mr Shoebridge says. The police did not distract him, so were unable to exploit the "crucial element of surprise".

8. Safeguarding the public

This boy, a bystander, was hit by a stray bullet
At least one bystander was shot, possibly because the public was allowed too close. The bullet from an M16 rifle, as carried by the gunman, can travel for about a mile, so preventing any risk of injury would have been difficult, Mr Shoebridge says, but a lot more could have been done. "When you saw the camera view from above, it was clear there was little command and control of the public on the ground," he says.

9. Using the gunman's brother to negotiate
Relatives and close friends can be a double-edged sword, Mr Shoebridge says. While they may have leverage over the hostage taker, what they are saying cannot be easily controlled. In this case, the gunman's brother was included in the negotiations - however, at a certain stage he became agitated and police started to remove him from the scene. The gunman saw this on television, and became agitated himself. According to one report he fired a warning shot.

10. Insufficient training
In some parts of the Philippines, such as Mindanao, hostage taking is not an uncommon occurrence, so the country has some forces that are well trained in the necessary tactics. The detachment involved in Monday's incident clearly was not, says Mr Shoebridge. After smashing the windows, one of the officers eventually put some CS gas inside, though "to what effect was not clear" he says. A unit involved in this work, needs to be "trained again and again, repeatedly practising precisely this kind of scenario," he says.

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solarz said:

Actually, you don't know that. I remember from a report I read that the guy freed the filipino hostages.

Of course, it is kind of laughable to speculate on the racial motives of a murderer. Whether or not the guy is racist really doesn't change anything to the story.

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Jackie Chan: Don't worry, HK people don't hate
abs-cbnNEWS.com
Posted at 08/25/2010 2:49 PM | Updated as of 08/26/2010 5:45 PM


MANILA, Philippines – Amid rising anger in Hong Kong over the bloody ending to a hostage crisis in Manila, action star Jackie Chan called on the peoples of the two territories to be “united." He also gave assurances that the people of Hong Kong "do not hate."

In his Twitter account, Chan wrote that he was saddened to hear about the hostage drama in Manila that resulted in the death of 8 Hong Kong tourists. Hostage-taker Rolando Mendoza, a former police officer, was also killed in the 11-hour standoff.

Chan had just arrived in Hong Kong from South Korea when he heard the “terrible news” in the Philippines and tweeted his thoughts.

“Remember the day before in korea we talked about how people should love each other. We already have so many natural disasters..typhoon, tsunami, everything. Humans should be united and not kill or hate each other,” he tweeted.

He made this call as the Chinese government demanded answers from the Philippine government over the lapses it made in handling the hostage crisis. Hong Kong residents have also denounced the Philippine police as incompetent.

“If they killed the guy sooner, they will say why not negotiate first? If they negotiate first, they ask why not kill the guy sooner? So sad,” he noted.

“A lot of things don’t happen to your own country you don't pay attention…. this kind of things always happen around the world. It happened to hk's people, the whole hk is talking about it. Its really sad,” he added.

But he assured that Hong Kong will not retaliate because of the incident.

He said: “HK is a nation built by a lot of different people..don't worry! We do not hate!”

Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda, meanwhile, thanked Chan for “extending his hand of friendship" to Filipinos.

“Thank you for extending [your] hand of friendship. We hope our friends there will extend their hand of friendship to us.... it’s an unfortunate event,” Lacierda said.

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The best element of surprise is to storm the vehicle at the first possible time using frame charge, blew the door out and get in immediately, then shoot your suspect quickly. Everything should be over in minutes or seconds... but that didn't seemed to be the case with the Philippines special forces.

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