2024 Zhuhai Airshow main thread, Air Systems

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
I'd grant the Su-57 has the best maneuverability, by virtue of 3D TVC, though one might question its relevance to modern air combat. Stability & controllability who can really say, but i expect in terms of avionics and stealthiness Su-57 is some way behind US and Chinese 5th gens.
It's a complex story without easy answers. If designers ignore national weaknesses, the typical result usually is a failed project.
When they accept them and do smart workarounds - results can be very good.

Russian electronics aren't exactly world beaters, but as a rule of thumb they're solidly within the pack. Wealthier nations will do better, not so wealthy ones won't (Even when they hide behind the common west monicker).

But it isn't just technology - system design matters a lot. Good concept outweighs tech level.
When Soviet concept design was behind - it was a disaster (mig-23m v f-15a). When concept was advanced and bold enough - flanker happened.

Su-57 is a controversial, but a very bold and standalone concept. We'll see.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
When Soviet concept design was behind - it was a disaster (mig-23m v f-15a). When concept was advanced and bold enough - flanker happened.
You can hardly compare both aircraft. The F-15 was designed as a counter to the MiG-25. While the Flanker was designed as a counter to the F-15.

The MiG-23M was a much cheaper single engine aircraft. It got a poor reputation due to doing bad in the Middle East with Syria using it against Israel where it proved not to be much better than the MiG-21. But the thing is those were export models which did not initially have the latest radar or Apex missiles.
 

MwRYum

Major
For the love of all the gods, now The National Interest has FIVE articles about the 'White Emperor'. Have they gone completely insane over there?

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... and while the last headline looks sane, the author argues that it is an attempt to 'psych out the West'.
The same bunch of idiots that thought 红色基因 commonly seen on slogans means China is genecrafting Astartes...
 

KFX

New Member
Registered Member
Some great defence stuff out of Zhuhai. Thanks for posting, everyone. Is there much of a business jet presence at the show? I also heard that Boeing is a no-show. Not surprising given all their issues, but they do have a lot of aircraft in China.
 

sdkan

New Member
Registered Member
Some great defence stuff out of Zhuhai. Thanks for posting, everyone. Is there much of a business jet presence at the show? I also heard that Boeing is a no-show. Not surprising given all their issues, but they do have a lot of aircraft in China.
Boeing is the exhibitor

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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
What Bogdan actually said:

"As for the newest Chinese J-35 airplane presented, at aerospace shows you can only see general aerodynamic parameters. When it comes to maneuverability, stability, and controllability, our competitors and rivals do not show everything. But in terms of what has been demonstrated, Russian aircraft are always a little bit ahead," Bogdan said in response to a TASS question."

I'd grant the Su-57 has the best maneuverability, by virtue of 3D TVC, though one might question its relevance to modern air combat. Stability & controllability who can really say, but i expect in terms of avionics and stealthiness Su-57 is some way behind US and Chinese 5th gens.
Best manueverability assumes combat speeds, which Chinese and American aircraft are optimized for. Hence the exclusion of TVC on the latest productions.

Looking at how dominant Mig-31 has been among non 5th gens, even Russia should have to reluctantly agree with this assessment.

Based on what the public knows at least, I would not doubt that the J-20 is the most dominant in 1vs1 air combat, owing to its acceleration, high AoA and leading avionics. It may not be the most produced aircraft or the best at ground attack however.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
What Bogdan actually said:

"As for the newest Chinese J-35 airplane presented, at aerospace shows you can only see general aerodynamic parameters. When it comes to maneuverability, stability, and controllability, our competitors and rivals do not show everything. But in terms of what has been demonstrated, Russian aircraft are always a little bit ahead," Bogdan said in response to a TASS question."

I'd grant the Su-57 has the best maneuverability, by virtue of 3D TVC, though one might question its relevance to modern air combat. Stability & controllability who can really say, but i expect in terms of avionics and stealthiness Su-57 is some way behind US and Chinese 5th gens.

The bolded part is really the most important, and I'm not sure how that actually supports what you've written.

The idea that non-Russian competitors and rivals do not show the full extent of their maneuverability, stability, and controllability (your usual air show performance features), is very reasonable, and "in terms of what has been demonstrated" at air shows, it is indeed true that Russian aircraft are "ahead" in the sense that a greater extent tend to be shown.


It is not necessarily a remark about the actual performance of the aircraft, but rather about what is shown at air shows, and that seems a highly reasonable remark.
 
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