2022 Olympic Winter Games Beijing

K

KYli

Brigadier
taxiya said:
Except she did not acquire US citizenship on her free will. That paper was given by the US government at birth when she could not express her free will until her adulthood.
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That's why the Chinese government has given these young children one chance to acquire Chinese citizen. That's they need to make a decision after 18 years old if they can want to be a Chinese citizen or not.

taxiya said:
The law does not say anything as such.

A good example is the BNO passport. To the British government, it is a fully legal Bristish passport (without adobe right in UK). If we interpret Chinese nationality law as you proposed, these BNO holders would have been stripped of Chinese citizenship, but in reality they are always and still Chinese citizens since the day they acquired BNO.

The key point is that these "passport" BNO or US are not passports in China's view, but merely a paper issued by foreign government to Chinese citizens under their jurisdictions. These "passports" are equal to resident permit and green card as far as China concerns.
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That's because during the 19th Session of the Standing Committee of the 8th National People’s Congress on 15 May 1996. China craves out an exemption for Hong Kong. Taking account of the historical background and the existing circumstances of Hong Kong. But this special exemption could be rescinded and have been discussed recently as many BNO fled Hong Kong to British.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
KYli said:
That's why the Chinese government has given these young children one chance to acquire Chinese citizen. That's they need to make a decision after 18 years old if they can want to be a Chinese citizen or not.
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No, the Chinese government did not give a chance to acquire because they were Chinese by birth. Actually Chinese government does NOT require them to do anything. They have to replace their Chinese travel document with a Chiense passport after 18 if they want to travel back to China as a Chinese citizen. They don't need to get that passport if they don't plan to travel back to China. They can get the passport any time they want.

I think the central difference in our arguments is that in my reading of the law, China never recognize those "US passports" bestowed to the babies as legal representation of citizenship, those are just green cards. While you regard those "US passports" as representation of US citizenship recognized by China.

KYli said:
That's because during the 19th Session of the Standing Committee of the 8th National People’s Congress on 15 May 1996. China craves out an exemption for Hong Kong. Taking account of the historical background and the existing circumstances of Hong Kong. But this special exemption could be rescinded and have been discussed recently as many BNO fled Hong Kong to British.
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Regardless the thought behind the wording of the Nationality law, the law does not give any exemption to any territories under PRC jurisdiction. The law applies to mainland residents, oversea Chinese passport holders and BNO holders equally.
 
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K

KYli

Brigadier
taxiya said:
You proabably has not read my post regarding the legal and practical status of "美宝"/"American Baby". The post was based on a legal advisor who deals with the Chinese giving birth in US.

Those Children are Chinese citizens by birth who were given an US "passport" by US government without the consent of the babies. As far as China concerns these babies are NOT US citizens but only Chinese citizens. They do NOT choose to be Chinese at the age of 18. They replace their Chinese travel document issued by Chinese embassy at birth with a Chinese passport at the age of 18. They do not need to decide anthing.
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A legal advisor that only purpose is to sell a product that is American citizenship by birth. No, article 9 has made it clear that it is illegal to have dual citizenship. It doesn't matter how some lawyers tried to interpret it one way or other.

If what you say is true, then why so many dual citizens Chinese went into trouble by entering in the third countries to avoid the custom agency to confiscate their Chinese passports. If what you says is true, then why these interviews all say they have to make the decision after 18 years old. Article 9 is very clear you can't have dual citizenship.
 
M

Mirabo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Now that the Olympics have ended, I'd like to share a little curiosity with everyone.

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One of the factories I work with made some of the athletic footwear for the Chinese national team. Each pair was custom-made for individual athletes, and their feet were 3D scanned to get the closest approximation so each athlete's shoes could be made in the best-fitting shape.

The fact that athletes won medals wearing these shoes demonstrates that the domestic industry is fully capable of producing high-end competition footwear, and that is something this factory can be proud of.
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
taxiya said:
No, the Chinese government did not give a chance to acquire because they were Chinese by birth. Actually Chinese government does NOT require them to do anything. They have to replace their Chinese travel document with a Chiense passport after 18 if they want to travel back to China as a Chinese citizen. They don't need to get that passport if they don't plan to travel back to China. They can get the passport any time they want.

I think the central difference in our arguments is that in my reading of the law, China never recognize those "US passports" bestowed to the babies as legal representation of citizenship, those are just green cards. While you regard those "US passports" as representation of US citizenship recognized by China.


Regardless the thought behind the wording of the Nationality law, the law does not give any exemption to any territories under PRC jurisdiction. The law applies to mainland residents, oversea Chinese passport holders and BNO holders equally.
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I don't want to type up all my points again. So I will just post these.
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根据中国国籍法，中国籍在孩子十八岁生日当天的零点零分开始自动丧失，但实际上，十八岁生日一过除了孩子成年之外什么都没发生，中国籍真正的消失是在孩子出了中国的之后。但是孩子18岁成年，中国籍是在美宝有放弃美国籍的自主权之后才会确认的。所以，美宝18岁一到，据我们的猜测，中国政府会首先停止旅行证的更换，这时美宝丧失中国籍，那么美宝再进入中国就需要申请中国签证。

如果美宝想要单一中国籍，那么去美领馆宣誓放弃美国国籍，再按照中国国籍法恢复中国籍即可获得单一国籍。

可以确定的是，在美宝18岁之前，中国政府按照规定还是会给美宝颁发中国旅行证。如果美宝的父母双方或一方获得了海外的居住权，那么美宝的旅行证将无法更换，这时候美宝的中国籍就丧失了，再回到中国，就需要办理中国签证了。



由于2020年英国宣布对BNO护照持有人放寬在英国的居留条件，引发部分人士不满，因此在2021年1月10日，香港新民黨立法會議員、行政會議成員、前保安局局长
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在報章撰文，指中央政府正考慮採取反制措施。她認為內地或會終止出於歷史原因對港人的特殊待遇，嚴格執行《中國國籍法》第9條，即禁止港人擁有雙重國籍。她認為，禁止港人擁有雙重國籍的做法毋須修改
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，其中一個可行方法或是就《中國國籍法》釋法。議員
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指，之前中央政府為了令港人對一國兩制保有信心，故採取寬鬆措施，但現時英美对中国的态度出现变化，認為即使中央決定「揸正嚟做」亦只是合情合理合法的外交回應，因為根據《基本法》附件三中，適用於本港的全國性法律《國籍法》，港人亦不可擁有雙重國籍。梁指，若中央真的打算嚴謹執法，「想食兩家茶禮嘅人就要自己揀啦（想吃两家茶礼的人就要自己选啦）」。
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副會長
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則指，當年香港回歸之初，中央為了穩定局勢和人心，才會使出寬鬆處理港人國籍的權宜之計，惟時至今日，其所衍生的問題亦逐漸浮現，加上有關做法本身不符合現行法律精神，亦逐漸引起內地人民不滿，故以他所知，中央亦在探討有關解決方案，特別是港人的權利和義務是否仍只與香港永久性居民身份掛鈎，而非以國籍劃分。他说，凡是香港永久性居民便可享有本地參選和投票權，而立法會也允許最多20%議員持外籍身份，惟基於目前的「愛國者治港」原則，仍然容許港人具雙重國籍或已不合時宜。他又指，香港目前有逾百萬人持外國護照，加上英國為BNO擴權，而加拿大和澳洲等國亦有意向港人招手，降低入籍門檻。他最后说，若双重国籍問題仍未改善，或會惡化外部勢力干預香港內務的情況，並估計當局對問題的大限最遲定於2047年，故一旦「50年不變」承諾期滿，屆時仍持外國籍人士，可能將一律按《國籍法》處理
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
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Who is that gorgeous female skater in white next to Bing Dwen Dwen?:)
 
Helius

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
[Snip]

An example is one of my friends who acquired an European passport. He returned to China using that passport instead of Chinese passport because the visa stamp on the Chinese passport has been punctured by the European country since he acquired new passport. His European passport stated his birth place being in China. This alarmed the border official to demand his paper renouncing Chinese citizenship which he did not do of course because he wanted to keep his Chinese passport. His European passport was temporarily seized. He was ordered to finish his paper work. After that he got his European passport back and allowed to leave.

From this example, you can see that in China's legal perspective, he was still Chinese citizen even he possessed a European passport which is null and void. He could not and would not be allowed to get consulate assistance for his trouble. He only became a foreigner once he finished his legal process of renouncing.

[Snip]
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taxiya said:
The law does not say anything as such.

A good example is the BNO passport. To the British government, it is a fully legal Bristish passport (without adobe right in UK). If we interpret Chinese nationality law as you proposed, these BNO holders would have been stripped of Chinese citizenship, but in reality they are always and still Chinese citizens since the day they acquired BNO.

The key point is that these "passport" BNO or US are not passports in China's view, but merely a paper issued by foreign government to Chinese citizens under their jurisdictions. These "passports" are equal to resident permit and green card as far as China concerns.
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A bit OT, but I have a client from HK whose parents were born and raised in the city but were also British citizens. Since he himself was born in England he's also a British citizen with a bona fide British passport, not the BNO kind.

His business is in Mainland China so he travels between the Mainland and HK all the time. He's a permanent HK resident with a HK ID card and passport that specify he has permanent right of abode (HK doesn't have 'citizenship' per se).

He holds an entry permit card that allows him to travel to China unimpeded and visa-free. He can work and live in any Chinese city as if he's Chinese national, pay his taxes there and is subject to Chinese laws.

He's never been required to present his British passport whenever he enters China from abroad, nor does he need to. All that requires is his HK passport and entry card, and immigration just waves him in.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
KYli said:
A legal advisor that only purpose is to sell a product that is American citizenship by birth. No, article 9 has made it clear that it is illegal to have dual citizenship. It doesn't matter how some lawyers tried to interpret it one way or other.
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I have answered article 9 which involves "free will to acquire". A new born baby could not possiblely have "free will" and capable to "acquire". Article 9 only applies to legally responsible adult, don't you agree?

A legal advisor only get his or her money if what he/she said works for their clients. There would not have been so many "American babies" if the advise was false and get the parents in troubles.

KYli said:
If what you say is true, then why so many dual citizens Chinese went into trouble by entering in the third countries to avoid the custom agency to confiscate their Chinese passports. If what you says is true, then why these interviews all say they have to make the decision after 18 years old. Article 9 is very clear you can't have dual citizenship.
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Those troubled Chinese are adult. Presenting their foreign passports to Chinese agencies have the effect that they have willing acquired foreign citizenship without officially renouncing Chinese citizenship. That act is a breach of Chinese law, therefor their troubles.

Article 9 is clear that Chinese can't have dual citizenship when the person willingly acquires foreign citizenship.

Article 3, "China does not acknowledge Chinese citizen having dual citizenship". Legally speaking those people are not dual citizens in China's standing point. They were Chinese citizens before legally renounce their Chinese citizenship, immediately from that point of time they are foreign citizens.
 
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