2019 India-Pakistani border clash

Biscuits · Feb 27, 2019

schrage musik said:
Yes, I'm aware of that documentary: he is/was definitely an MKI driver. The Indians on some forums are however claiming that he went on to fly Mig 21s after being on the MKI. I dont know how much sense that makes? In view of the eyewitness accounts it is looking increasingly likely that he was in a two seat aircraft when shot down. A big big pointer towards a flanker.

Also, it is possible that the footage of the crash from Kashmir is of a helicopter. The second aircraft that was shot down may possibly have crashed at some other remote location. The region is highly mountainous and sparsely populated. It is quite possible for the Indians to seal off access to a crash site in those remote mountains. They are not saying a word, either.

That alone is quite possible. However, it is far less possible that India sent MiG-21s only to intercept a PAF formation. There is also the eyewitness account of two parachutes at the same time and the claims of 3 pilots lost but only 2 aircraft. MiG-21s are single seaters.

Finally there's also the crash site pic which clearly shows a twin engine plane. Some Indians are now claiming it to be a MiG-29, which is quite possible. But Indian media also indicated that Su30MKI was operating in the area before suddenly taking down that claim. There have been no media claims of MiG-29 in the area. However, that doesn't mean there couldn't have been one.

asif iqbal · Feb 27, 2019

Indian navy is on the move

Our Southern flank is weak, air force and army can handle the rest in the North/East

China should send its carrier strike group to Bay of Bengal to the split the Indian defences in half

Otherwise Pakistan should not rule out the use of nuclear attack on the Indian navy

Pakistan navy doesnt have its SSK and FFG fleet up to its full strength yet, very vulnerable

drowingfish · Feb 27, 2019

Biscuits said:
That alone is quite possible. However, it is far less possible that India sent MiG-21s only to intercept a PAF formation. There is also the eyewitness account of two parachutes at the same time and the claims of 3 pilots lost but only 2 aircraft. MiG-21s are single seaters.

Finally there's also the crash site pic which clearly shows a twin engine plane. Some Indians are now claiming it to be a MiG-29, which is quite possible. But Indian media also indicated that Su30MKI was operating in the area before suddenly taking down that claim. There have been no media claims of MiG-29 in the area. However, that doesn't mean there couldn't have been one.

do you have the pics of that crash site?

drowingfish · Feb 27, 2019

asif iqbal said:
Indian navy is on the move

Our Southern flank is weak, air force and army can handle the rest in the North/East

China should send its carrier strike group to Bay of Bengal to the split the Indian defences in half

Otherwise Pakistan should not rule out the use of nuclear attack on the Indian navy

Pakistan navy doesnt have its SSK and FFG fleet up to its full strength yet, very vulnerable

how about this, NO ONE USE NUKES.

I doubt the indian navy is in much better shape, if pakistan plays its cards right it should be alright. ie stay close to its coast to ensure proper air cover but move further north away from the indian fleet.

advill · Feb 27, 2019

Better for India & Pakistan to settle this serious matter ASAP instead to trading blows that may lead to WAR. China & US have advised both countries to discuss these serious matters amicably - possibly the UN or some acceptable country could do the Mediation IF acceptable by both parties. Any War or continued hostilities will effect business/trade investments in South Asian Region and the BRI. Both India & Pakistan have Nuclear capabilities and foolish PRIDE goes before a Downfall. Again I always emphasise (although criticised by some macho commentator who probably are arm-chair guys who never participated in hostilities or war) "Jaw Jaw NOT War War".

Tirdent · Feb 27, 2019

The only wreckage imagery I could not trace to older events by reverse image search does not look remotely like a Flanker, so it may be prudent to tone down the speculation and schadenfreude for the time being. Those photos which seem genuine and show identifiable parts are clearly of a MiG-21 and Mi-17, further I didn't see anything that would definitively indicate a twin-seater or twin-engined aircraft?

Oh, and:

Neutral Zone · Feb 27, 2019

plawolf said:
I think that must be the best cast scenario here, as he will get absolutely obliterated in the upcoming elections as things stand.

If he wants to remain as PM, then he will need to double down and try and produce a military victory to eclipse this humiliating loss, but that would mean yet another escalation, which could easily spiral out of all control.

Yeah the BJP has been losing support in the polls over the last few months and they lost some state elections last year. It’s really difficult to see what military options India has here that don’t risk further escalation so a climbdown looks inevitable.

If Modi ordered this action thinking that it would shore up his support then it would be fitting if it’s backfired on him.

Biscuits · Feb 27, 2019

drowingfish said:
do you have the pics of that crash site?

See attached file.

asif iqbal said:
Indian navy is on the move

Our Southern flank is weak, air force and army can handle the rest in the North/East

China should send its carrier strike group to Bay of Bengal to the split the Indian defences in half

Otherwise Pakistan should not rule out the use of nuclear attack on the Indian navy

Pakistan navy doesnt have its SSK and FFG fleet up to its full strength yet, very vulnerable

It should really not come to nukes. China must interfere before that happens.

Assuming India follows “Cold Start”, China can counter with air strikes to take out supply lines and IAF, leaving Indian front troops stranded and without air cover. Then Pakistani army and their gunships can pick them off.

On the naval theatre, PLAN would mostly be restricted to providing aegis cover for major cities, hit and run using YJ-12s and submarine warfare. IIRC the Indian Ocean fleet is 14 ships, not including replenishment vessels and submarines. In contrast, India has almost as many in DDGs alone.

localizer · Feb 27, 2019

China will not interfere. The issue is too peripheral. Only thing they can do is continue trade and make sure trade routes are open.

bd popeye · Feb 27, 2019

Biscuits said:
On the naval theatre, PLAN would mostly be restricted to providing aegis cover

China has no true Aegis system. Only an Aegis "like" system.

C'mon now.

Do you fellows really think China will get involved in this dispute? Hopefully this conflict can be settled peacefully.

As for the Chinese CV getting involved. CV-16 just started sea trials after a minor re-fit. It would take weeks for it to work up to a combat status.

plawolf said:
If he wants to remain as PM, then he will need to double down and try and produce a military victory to eclipse this humiliating loss, but that would mean yet another escalation, which could easily spiral out of all control.

True. this thing could scale out of control quickly.

2019 India-Pakistani border clash

Biscuits

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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General

drowingfish

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drowingfish

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advill

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Tirdent

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Neutral Zone

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Biscuits

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localizer

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bd popeye

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