2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
- Status
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Somewhere in Russia A half naked Vladimr Putin is Laughing
Mr T
Senior Member
Engineer
Major
Yeah. It is loan, not aid. I guess it is good for Obama since his country will be one of the loan sharks.
Engineer
Major
Is the West not treating the regime change in Ukraine a fait accompli as well? Russia urged the West multiple times to criticize Ukraine's "new government" for not following the peace deal signed with Yanukovych. Russia's pleads fell on deaf ears, and the western leaders probably thought to themselves "let's ignore those fools, since we are winning and there is nothing they can do about it." After that, Russia took over Crimea, because "what can the West do about it?" Basically, the West got served its own medicines by Russia.
The West wants Russia to pay a heavy price regardless of whether Russia is in Crimea or not. The Cold War never ended, and if Russia didn't took over Crimea today, those same sanctions are still going occur when some other disagreements arise in the future. No matter what Russia does, the outcomes will be the same, so Russia doesn't see the point of cooperating anymore.
People tend to think of actions from the West as responses to Russia's actions. I however, look at Russia's actions as responses to actions from the West. The West did a regime change in Ukraine, Russia took over Crimea. When the West tries to cripple Russia's economy, those Russian troops are going to move across the border as retaliation.
The issue is that Ukraine is very important strategically. Just look at the map! Having Ukraine will expose Russia, which enables the West to hold Russia's balls and squeeze at anytime. Russia wants Ukraine to prevent what I have just said from happening. So, it makes perfect sense for Russia to act the way it is doing today.
Last edited:
No, they don't knock or use the door knob either,,,,,,,animals........
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Of course the fact Engineer that the very reason for the uprising was protests against the prorussian agreement. So criticizing the policy would be a useless gesture and probably would have broken down relations between Europe and the new Ukraine.
Loans are often granted, the Question is the repayment agreement. Even China and Russia grant loans. The critical factor is the interest rate and repayment schedule if its low and long term then Ukraine has a realistic option and measures against default. If its high and short then its a loan shark.
Loans are often granted, the Question is the repayment agreement. Even China and Russia grant loans. The critical factor is the interest rate and repayment schedule if its low and long term then Ukraine has a realistic option and measures against default. If its high and short then its a loan shark.
Jura The idiot
General
Picked up a couple of articles from yesterdays Daily telegraph which seem make interesting reading
1) About tensions between nationalist groups and the new government and how some are forming defence movements separate from the Governments own new national guard militia.
That was a surprise in that the fragmentation has started so quickly. It also confirms that the loss of Crimea has lost the new government a lot of credibility and legitimacy in the eyes of many that took the lead in the fight in Maidan. I am sure that the provision of the IMF loan will do little to sweeten tempers either.
In fact I wonder if this loan could be the new flashpoint?
If the provisions of the loan include widespread closure or sale of Industrial facilities in the East and South, the population could easily claim "economic attack" and call again for Russian Intervention.
Which does make the second article interesting
Russia is big, but to be able to hide a army of the strength being claimed? Unless of course there is a lot of military owned land by the border where they normally exercise?
Yanokovytch has led the call I expected to hear regarding Full Autonomy for the Russian speaking regions, by calling for a referendums in all these regions. It is unlikely he is speaking unbidden by his host.
The big story today is the call from Putin to Obama, planned apparently by Lavrov and Kerry earlier this week after Kerry submitted written proposals. Reading both accounts, it sounds as though both men have simply reiterated their positions and Putin agreed to submit his position/proposals in writing.
It sounds like a return to the old Arms Control Talks of the Seventies/Eighties where both sides sat down for months at a time and repeated their positions over and over, with the other side listening and looking to pick up a small change or difference in nuance.
It may sound pointless, but it does two things.
1) It establishes a mechanism for serious dialogue should it ever be needed.
2) It kicks the process into the long grass, where everybody can appear to talk as events happen and reality changes on the ground.
1) About tensions between nationalist groups and the new government and how some are forming defence movements separate from the Governments own new national guard militia.
That was a surprise in that the fragmentation has started so quickly. It also confirms that the loss of Crimea has lost the new government a lot of credibility and legitimacy in the eyes of many that took the lead in the fight in Maidan. I am sure that the provision of the IMF loan will do little to sweeten tempers either.
In fact I wonder if this loan could be the new flashpoint?
If the provisions of the loan include widespread closure or sale of Industrial facilities in the East and South, the population could easily claim "economic attack" and call again for Russian Intervention.
Which does make the second article interesting
Russia is big, but to be able to hide a army of the strength being claimed? Unless of course there is a lot of military owned land by the border where they normally exercise?
Yanokovytch has led the call I expected to hear regarding Full Autonomy for the Russian speaking regions, by calling for a referendums in all these regions. It is unlikely he is speaking unbidden by his host.
The big story today is the call from Putin to Obama, planned apparently by Lavrov and Kerry earlier this week after Kerry submitted written proposals. Reading both accounts, it sounds as though both men have simply reiterated their positions and Putin agreed to submit his position/proposals in writing.
It sounds like a return to the old Arms Control Talks of the Seventies/Eighties where both sides sat down for months at a time and repeated their positions over and over, with the other side listening and looking to pick up a small change or difference in nuance.
It may sound pointless, but it does two things.
1) It establishes a mechanism for serious dialogue should it ever be needed.
2) It kicks the process into the long grass, where everybody can appear to talk as events happen and reality changes on the ground.
- Status