2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Mr T

Senior Member
The last point: By not starting a war the Russians save themselves a lot of money.

The Crimean invasion has cost Russia money. If they were worried about cost they wouldn't have taken action in the first place.

And by waiting for the EU to find out it just can't afford to sponsor the bloody regime in Kiev the Russians might be able to help establish a friendly government in Kiev at little cost.

"Bloody" regime? They haven't been threatening Russia or the Ukraine. And there is zero chance of a pro-Russian government taking over in Kiev. Russia's actions have solidified support for the new government.

At best Russia's actions might convince people to drive out the current administration for lack of action at the coming elections - but that would probably put a more hostile government in, not a friendly one.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I have a head ache from this whole affair.
Pentagon proposes cuts to Ukraine military aid
Mar. 20, 2014 - 01:06PM |
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By Ray Locker
USA Today

Obama orders new round of sanctions on Russia
President Obama in interview: No military intervention in Ukraine
The Obama administration has proposed a 28 percent spending cut for a Pentagon program that supports modernizing the military of Ukraine and other former Soviet Union republics, Pentagon budget records show, a move that could endanger efforts to boost Ukraine's armed forces as they face threats from Russia.

The proposed cuts, which are contained in a detailed budget plan posted online this week, come over the objections of officials with the U.S. European Command, who argue they will hurt U.S. attempts to build armed forces in nations formerly beholden to Russia.

Spending on the Warsaw Initiative Fund is set to drop from $34 million in the current fiscal year to $24.4 million in the 2015 fiscal year, which starts Oct. 1.

Neither Pentagon nor White House officials would comment on the proposed spending cut. The White House National Security Council referred all questions to the Pentagon and the Office of Management and Budget, which also did not respond.

The proposed spending cut comes as "the demand for funding to meet important U.S./NATO objectives continues to grow," said the budget plan from the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees the Warsaw Initiative. Maintaining the current spending level is important, officials from the U.S. European Command argued, because the initiative is an important tool "to encourage defense reform and promote NATO interoperability and integration, especially among NATO aspirants."

"The implications of this are not good," said Stephen Blank, a senior fellow at the American Foreign Policy Council. "The only thing that the world respects is action, not talk, so if you are not going to fund these projects then no one will take you seriously."

European Command officials, the budget document shows, said money from the initiative pays for half of their military-to-military work in the Balkans, South Caucasus and Eurasia, which includes Ukraine, and failing to maintain the current spending levels "will weaken their ability to complete their country cooperation plans' goals and objectives, and will also reduce their overall engagement with the countries" involved in the Partnership for Peace.

The Partnership for Peace is a NATO program aimed at building the armed forces of potential NATO members and is supported by the Warsaw Initiative spending. Ukraine is not a NATO member, and its prime minister said this week it would not seek to join.

A 2009 study by the RAND Corp. for the Pentagon said the top three roles for the initiative were creating a nation's defense policy and management, human resources and the democratic control of a nation's armed forces. Ukraine's participation in the program has created strong relationships with the U.S. military, which were influential in keeping the Ukrainian army from getting involved in last month's protests against the country's former president, Viktor Yanukovych, who later fled to Russia.

Some exercises with Ukraine may have to be canceled because of the rising tensions between Russia and Ukraine, which have led to Russia seizing control of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula, the document shows.

"Due to the dire security situation in country, prospects of continuing to execute (2014) events in Ukraine remain unknown at the time this document was prepared," the budget proposal says. "Furthermore, a re-evaluation of all security cooperation activities with Ukraine may need to occur in light of domestic political events."

NATO officials said this week they would step up their coordination with Ukraine. Two military exercises scheduled for the summer in and around Ukraine, Rapid Trident and Sea Breeze, are still set to occur, Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said. She would not speculate on what would happen with future exercises beyond this summer.

Another NATO exercise, Saber Guardian, is set to start Friday and include a Ukrainian contingent among the 700 troops from 12 countries. The exercise, which will take place in eastern Bulgaria, will last until April 4.

____

Contributing: Kendall Breitman
 

MwRYum

Major
The Crimean invasion has cost Russia money. If they were worried about cost they wouldn't have taken action in the first place.



"Bloody" regime? They haven't been threatening Russia or the Ukraine. And there is zero chance of a pro-Russian government taking over in Kiev. Russia's actions have solidified support for the new government.

At best Russia's actions might convince people to drive out the current administration for lack of action at the coming elections - but that would probably put a more hostile government in, not a friendly one.

All military actions cost money, even if just moving from point A to point B, but so far Moscow haven't fired that many a shot, limited the "incursion" to just the Crimean region, its forces are well behaved and welcomed by the locals thus far, plus the Ukrainian military at that region didn't put up too much a fight (still overall remain a gentleman affair, sort of). On top of that, Western powers' responses thus far are limited to gesture in nature, the stock markets haven't crash yet, oil and gas prices haven't spike yet either, so unless somebody is going to do something stupid, cooler heads will prevail.

That Bandera freak show at Kiev might be more for concern though, especially when the EU won't want anymore closer to them, they're the one who openly threaten any non-Ukrainian by ethnicity (that includes Tartars as well, whereas Russia at the very least proclaims the Tartars have as much legal rights as any Russian citizen), and sure they've their thugs but not the support of the regular military; on top of all that, when they realise the Western powers ain't going to do more than lip service and the Western Ukraine's economy crash further...in short, Western Ukraine will be a source of instability for quite some time to come.
 

MwRYum

Major
And now for something on a lighter note, and a bit of the unexpected...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


qy9wjfpsksiypehrhsco.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well If the Whole Attorney General thing falls through at least she could get her own Anime.

Oh man this could spawn a Whole new Genera of Pop Culture Political Fandom.

though she is moekko ( loose Translation: Cute Child like)
 
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bajingan

Senior Member
Witnessing the crisis in Ukraine one cannot help but to notice the similarity of the situation leading to the build up of WW2
Big recession, major power that lost last war feels wronged and engages in arms build up followed by territiorial acquisition justified by defending ethnically related populations. They ally with up and coming Asian power.

Will history repeat itself? in the nuclear age, unlikely, but interesting times are ahead.

on the lighter note, that Crimean attorney general must be the prettiest politician in the world.
 

delft

Brigadier
I've been thinking about why the Ukraine project became a farce and I think it was because of a major disconnect between the US and EU purposes. The EU wanted an increase in its export market by replacing Russian products by EU products and without too large an increase in imports from Ukraine. Thus the 1500 pages Association Treaty. But it couldn't offer a convincing answer to $15b from Russia. That Treaty had a military chapter but that was of little immediate import. The US on the other hand wanted to get rid of the Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol and were in a hurry because of developments in the Middle East. This explains the famous saying by Victoria Nuland: "F*K THE EU". That's when US sponsored extremists used sharp shooters to shoot demonstrators as well as police on the Maidan square. That's when one oligarch with forty members of parliament was bribed or black mailed into changing sides and Yanukovich fled. I understand that more than a hundred members of parliament fled too and the remaining lot didn't amounted to the 75% needed according to the constitution to remove president Yanukovich.
The logistics of the Ukraine operation were badly thought through and apparently well understood by the Russians so the coup in the Crimea that is said to have been planned against the naval base will now probably just remain a rumor.
 

Rutim

Banned Idiot
I've been thinking about why the Ukraine project became a farce and I think it was because of a major disconnect between the US and EU purposes. The EU wanted an increase in its export market by replacing Russian products by EU products and without too large an increase in imports from Ukraine. Thus the 1500 pages Association Treaty. But it couldn't offer a convincing answer to $15b from Russia. That Treaty had a military chapter but that was of little immediate import. The US on the other hand wanted to get rid of the Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol and were in a hurry because of developments in the Middle East. This explains the famous saying by Victoria Nuland: "F*K THE EU". That's when US sponsored extremists used sharp shooters to shoot demonstrators as well as police on the Maidan square. That's when one oligarch with forty members of parliament was bribed or black mailed into changing sides and Yanukovich fled. I understand that more than a hundred members of parliament fled too and the remaining lot didn't amounted to the 75% needed according to the constitution to remove president Yanukovich.
The logistics of the Ukraine operation were badly thought through and apparently well understood by the Russians so the coup in the Crimea that is said to have been planned against the naval base will now probably just remain a rumor.
You surely know much more than we (like $15b offer from Russia, US sponsoring extremists, oligarch's bribing, getting rid of naval base in Sevastopol even though there was bilateral agreement until 2040~ and never heard that new Ukrainian government planned to do that, you had surely read Association Treaty between Ukraine and EU a few times as well it seems) but it would be better to formulate that in poits because your post looks pretty chaotic, similar to Kurt's ones.

Please, keep that in mind for the next time and keep it simple to make easier for other users understand more.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Here is the moment Ukraine's acting prime minister, Arseny Yatsenuk, signed the first part of the long-awaited political association pact with the EU whose rejection by Viktor Yanukovych sparked the current crisis.


[video=youtube;hQdDgo9edb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQdDgo9edb0&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
AP reports:

Moscow is tightening the financial screws on Kiev - Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev says Ukraine owes Russia no less than $16 billion. He said in a meeting with Mr Putin that Kiev owes $11 billion because the treaty under which Russia provides Ukraine with cheap gas in return for the use of the Sevastopol naval base was "subject to denunciation". What's more, he added, Ukraine owes another $3 billion for a recent loan in the form of a Russian purchase of Eurobonds, and that $2 billion is owed to Gazprom, the Russian state gas giant.
 
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