2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

Jura said:

I woke up half of hour ago and there's some interesting development in Slavyansk: It seems Ukrainian forces are attacking "for real this time", but Ukrainian media are not informing about it (?) -- I'm comparing this development to what I've heard lately: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mem...s-views-photos-videos-80-6796.html#post279767 However, Czech, Polish servers inform about an attack, and Russian servers give more details (there aren't many, though) ... oh, something just came out of Reuters:

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I need to leave for work anyway

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This is what I got so far.

Ukrainian forces launched a "large-scale operation" to retake the eastern town of Slaviansk, pro-Russian separatists holding the town said on Friday, as security deteriorated in a crisis that has provoked the biggest confrontation between Russia and the West since the Cold War.

A Reuters photographer said he saw a military helicopter open fire on the outskirts of the town and a reporter heard gunfire. Separatists said they were under attack and that at least one helicopter had been shot down.

Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the self-declared mayor or the town, was quoted by Russia's Interfax news agency as saying two helicopters had been shot down and one pilot had been detained. Another had been killed.

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BBC Radio 4's program "Today" just reported that its correspondents have seen no fighting in Slavyansk, but that the Kiev regime acknowledged the loss of two helicopters and the death of one pilot, as was earlier reported from the town. So the probability is that this assault has failed too.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

First remember how the Ukraine was built. it started with a small nation that was grown by amputating parts of other nations to build the current state.

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I don't know who drew this map but it's flawed as hell. 'Territories annexed to Ukraine' lol

Firts of all - a country known as Ukraine is a fairy modern name, first country under this name has been created in the last years of the first WW, when revolution started in Russia.

'Ukrainian territory in 1654' - lol, those are lands of Zaporozhian Sich, a part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth controlled by Cossacks. It's by no means Ukraine - a term used by Polish and Russians to call the lands near the Black Sea close to borders of Russia, Poland and Ottoman Empire.

'by the Russian tsars in 1654-1917' - most laughable of all - those land were taken by Russia with the brutal pacification of Zaporozhian Sich in the late XVIII century and mainly second partition of Poland. It was Russia, not Ukraine! The lands on the west called 'by Joseph Stalin in 1939, 1945' were lands taken by Austro-Hungarian Monarchy during the second partition by Poland, from 1918-1939 it was Polish territory. Lots of bad blood between Poles and Ukrainians created in the process - welcome Stepan Bandera in the history of Central Europe!

'by Vladimir Lenin in 1922' - those are territories of Ukrainian Soviet Republic which later on took over Ukrainian People's Republic's territories in the west with the help of Soviet Army. This is what became Ukrainian SSR in 1922 within Soviet country.

If you calculate througly - the fully independent state of Ukraine (two in reality - People's Republic and Soviet Republic) existed only in years 1917-22 before the fall of USSR in the 90's of the last century. All that this map shows before Stalin shows how Russia conquered those lands. Not 'annexed' to Ukraine.

A lot of fog surrounding events on the ground re the assault on Slavyansk, but two things do stand out.

1) The assault is being led by the new National Guard rather than Ukrainian regulars

2) Russian media are playing up the level of activity while the BBC seem to be downplaying quite heavily.





PS I have noticed that the content in both links has been prone to sudden and drastic change over the course of the morning, so I can only write based on content at this precise time.

The Dutch broadcaster BNR contacted a Dutch speaking French photographer in Slavyansk about an hour ago who said he had seen no fighting. He had seen a halted column of APC's surrounded by civilians who tried to talk its crews in not attacking the town and on another road into the town another unit of the Ukrainian forces without armor similarly in discussion with civilians.
In the mean time Putin is said to have concluded that the Kiev regime has abandoned compromise and chosen war.

In a discussion by three candidates for the upcoming European elections on BNR two said the European countries should spend more on defense although they are already spending more than Russia and China together.

Ukraine to restore conscription after admitting it has lost eastern front

Ukraine launched what appeared to be its first major assault against pro-Russian forces who have seized government buildings in the country's east, with fighting breaking out in the early hours on Friday around a city that has become the focus of the insurgency. Three deaths were reported in early fighting.
Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman said the offensive "effectively destroyed the last hope for the implementation of the Geneva agreements" which were intended to defuse the crisis.

Two Ukrainian helicopters were shot down and two of their crewmembers killed on Friday morning, both sides said. The Ukrainian Security Service said one of the helicopters was shot down with a surface-to-air missile, which it said undercut Russia's claims that the city is under control of civilians who took up arms.

Stella Khorosheva, a spokeswoman for the pro-Russian militants, said one of their men was killed and another injured. She offered no further details.

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The Ukrainians are moving ahead with their offensive in Eastern Ukraine against the pro-Russian, and probably Russian armed and supported, seperatists. Apparently many pro-Russians fighters have been injured or killed. This despite the large Russian military presence/buildup immediately to their east.

Either the Ukrainians are desperate and willing to somehow hope that either the Russians will not come across the border, or that the West will help them if the Russians do.

Or...they know something we do not...and perhaps agreements are already in place and forces already on alert and prepared to come to the Ukraine's aid if the Russians do invade. I’d like to hope the Europeans would be willing to do this in support of the Urkaine...and the US too...but I would be very surprised if under the current leadership in France, the UK, Germany and the US they had the stomach for it.

But I guess you never know.

The Ukrainians continuing an offensive against pro-Russian seperatists is just too much akin to the trap Georgia fell into in 2008 when the Georgian forces did the same thing in their rebellious province and then the Russians invaded. The Ukraine saw that happen, so you have to know that they are accutely aware of the danger.

Whatever one may think about the causes that have led to this point, these are now very dangerous times. IMHO, these events are just far too remeniscent of the events that led to World War II in Europe in 1938-1939.

Of course the EU and US won't have the stomach to fight Russia.

At the end of the day, the calculations are very simply, the side willing to go the furthest to win will win. If Russia goes into Ukraine, it will not allow itself to be defeated militarily. If the US and NATO forces move in and gets into a shooting war with Russia, and it looks like the Russians might loose, I have little doubt Putin will threaten the nuclear option.

Whether he will actually push the button, even for a very limited tactical strike, is extremely questionable, but given the stakes, who would want to play nuclear chicken with Putin? Especially over Ukraine?

In that instance, either the US and NATO accept a humiliating military defeat and ceded Ukraine to Russia, or they try and call Putin's bluff, but have to seriously consider if they are willing to end humanity over this dispute if Putin isn't bluffing and actually drops a tactical nuke on Ukraine.

You pick your fights, even if you are the only superpower. Ukraine is just a no win situation for the west when Russia is lead by someone like Putin, who might just be crazy enough to use nukes to achieve his goal.

I think we can get a sense of what has been happening in Slavyansk today.

The day opened with joint ground armour and airborne assaults against some peripheral checkpoints but also with Air Assaults against strategic targets in the town itself. It seems that these urban helicopter assaults were met by professional quality militia packing manpad SAM's and this phase was quickly cancelled after at least two helicopters were brought down and others probably damaged.

Following this, it seems that the majority of the serious Pro Russian fighters have fallen back to the City Centre to defend the prepared strategic locations, with most of the outer barricades being abandoned or only lightly held. Given that the outer barricades will have been mostly to give advanced warning of any assault, this is hardly a surprise.

Meanwhile Ukrainian mechanised units (largely made up it seems of Civil Guards) have advanced on the city, but all the columns seem to have been halted since this morning by civilians blocking bridges and other entry points into the main urban area.

Kiev is claiming major successes in the operation, but this is reminiscent of claims from earlier phases and have on those occasions been found to be highly exaggerated.

Trouble has flared in other parts of the country with some major clashes in Odessa this afternoon. Kiev has spoke recently about containing the spread of the unrest. If the Pro Federalist answer to the Slavyansk assault is to effect that spreading, it will be a very effective response and cause yet more damage to the standing of the interim administration.

plawolf said:

Of course the EU and US won't have the stomach to fight Russia.

At the end of the day, the calculations are very simply, the side willing to go the furthest to win will win. If Russia goes into Ukraine, it will not allow itself to be defeated militarily. If the US and NATO forces move in and gets into a shooting war with Russia, and it looks like the Russians might loose, I have little doubt Putin will threaten the nuclear option.

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NATO has no chance of defeating Russia on its own doorsteps, and NATO commanders know it. The key is simply logistics. Putin has no need to threaten the nuclear option.