09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

The whole reason there is this debate is because we also give fzgfzy credibility, and what he wrote about 09V and 09VI is somewhat ahead of the schedules that we had known before, and everything is further complicated by the fact that the new production line exists. The overall secrecy of Chinese Naval nuclear submarine procurement means I don't think we can be too confident about many of our facts.

After all, as I wrote two pages back I was under the impression that 09V production would've only began in late 2017/early 2018 at the earliest, but it seems like we are getting some information which may suggest otherwise, putting a bit of a spanner into our previous understanding and challenges us with the possibility that what we previously knew might not have been fully accurate.

 

[azesus]

"secrecy" they finish the 09V design 2018 end of Febuary and the offical public post this info in 2018 April, what more could you want? ask them to make a submarine porn?

 

[taxiya]

google translate my previous post previous page, 09V did not finish its design until 2018 Febuary, so the one before is 09IIIB or the chinese themselves called the "kai" version meaning change or upgrade with newer subsystems, thats basically about it

Did you source your post from Japanese article? Kai is a Japanese approximation (On'yomi) of Chinese word meaning "Change/Improvement". See

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. Chinese source would spell it as Gai in Pinyin.

Edit: Never mind, I've found your post 438 in Chinese. Apparently Google translator's fault.

 

[taxiya]

Using 09IV or 09III as a baseline for 09V and 09VI may not be appropriate at all. Take 09III for example, it is a continuous improvement in every 2 or so boats. That means, 1. China wasn't fully satisfied with the initial design, 2. China has experienced a faster improvement technology and construction method than expected by themselves, 3. 09III/IV started at a time of tight military budget, end up in a time of "explosive" increasing budget. The speed of 09III/IV constructions is a mix of very slow and very fast phases, can't be indicative for a more stable and mature design and construction of later generation.

 

[taxiya]

google translate my previous post previous page, 09V did not finish its design until 2018 Febuary, so the one before is 09IIIB or the chinese themselves called the "kai" version meaning change or upgrade with newer subsystems, thats basically about it

在2018年4月17日，中船重工的官方微博披露，位於武漢的中船重工719所在2018年2月28日，搭乘G1290動車前往千里之外的造船廠，「開始廠所融合設計的新征程」。在半年前（約2017年11月），由719所總設計師冷文軍率領的60餘名設計團隊抵達船艦配建現場，通過「5+2」、「白+黑」日夜趕工、沒有放假的奮戰，在八十幾天內完成了63000多道審簽工序，向工廠發放7000多份經過精確計算、精細設計、精準定位的三維數據包，順利完成了某產品的設計數據發放任務，比以往型號的施工設計圖紙供應整整快了一年

The design package was delivered (digital package) to the shipyard around November 2017, one year earlier than past types (by paper).
The event in February 2018 was about design team joining the production team. I suppose this means that the design team will be on site of production to assist any question or understanding of the design document by the construction team. It is to smooth and speed up the production.

 

[Blitzo]

"secrecy" they finish the 09V design 2018 end of Febuary and the offical public post this info in 2018 April, what more could you want? ask them to make a submarine porn?

As Taxiya has pointed out, the information we have is not always interpreted or translated in the correct way.

Fact of the matter is there is conflicting information and indications, meaning somewhere along the line the information we've been getting must be inconsistent at one place or another.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

The Chinese Naval Group CEO CSIC, accompanied by the Chief Engineer of the 719 Institute, paid a visit yesterday to the Bohai shipyard. The new infrastructure to build the SNA Type 09V and the SNLE Type 09VI will soon be operational.
From henri k blog look like the building is completed and they move a lot of crate I assume tool and jig

 

[Skywatcher]

Could lead to China having the second largest SSN fleet in the world by 2040 or thereabouts.

 

[Biscuits]

Could lead to China having the second largest SSN fleet in the world by 2040 or thereabouts.

Not sure they’ll make that many SSN aside from keeping their technological edge alive.

The PLAN used to be a single force dedicated solely for self defense, where advanced SSKs provide the best undersea component, being stealthier.

In recent days, PLAN has also acquired a global force which could be used to crack down on third world nations. This isn’t something China would willingly do unless there’s absolutely no other option, but given the large amount of new ties with such countries, it’s a necessary insurance. The SSNs go under that category, having good range and payload.

Even if the 095 can be as stealthy as the 041, the cost would likely be prohibitive compared to a 041, which “merely” costs 600+ million $, although that is already insane for a SSK that typically costs around 300-400 million $.

Unless China’s doctrine changes into intervenationism to create puppet regimes, there won’t be a need for force 2 to eclipse force 1. 041s and their future successor will still be the primary submarines.

 

[AndrewS]

Not sure they’ll make that many SSN aside from keeping their technological edge alive.

The PLAN used to be a single force dedicated solely for self defense, where advanced SSKs provide the best undersea component, being stealthier.

In recent days, PLAN has also acquired a global force which could be used to crack down on third world nations. This isn’t something China would willingly do unless there’s absolutely no other option, but given the large amount of new ties with such countries, it’s a necessary insurance. The SSNs go under that category, having good range and payload.

Even if the 095 can be as stealthy as the 041, the cost would likely be prohibitive compared to a 041, which “merely” costs 600+ million $, although that is already insane for a SSK that typically costs around 300-400 million $.

Unless China’s doctrine changes into intervenationism to create puppet regimes, there won’t be a need for force 2 to eclipse force 1. 041s and their future successor will still be the primary submarines.

From a doctrinal point of view, SSNs essentially have unlimited range, so are also suited for global sea denial and power projection in high-end conflicts.

Plus if the cost of an SSN is about $1Billion, that is roughly the same as the Type-55.
So the cost doesn't seem prohibitive given how many Type-55 are being produced.

Also think what the existence of a fleet of 30 SSNs would mean.
That would mean 4 SSNs constantly patrolling the Pacific, which would significantly change the military balance of power.