09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

AndrewS

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Just acknowledging "they have capability to launch multiple nuclear submarines per year" is probably enough at this stage.

I think we can go a step further with:

"Given an established nuclear attack submarine design, Bohai Shipyard has recently demonstrated the capability to launch in excess of 3 submarines annually"

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It would also be factually accurate to add:

"Furthermore, we can see that Bohai shipyard has undergone a significant expansion with new submarine construction facilities.
This expansion includes completely new submarine assembly buildings which cover almost twice the land area of all equivalent buildings in the US combined."
 

Blitzo

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It's not a projection of how many submarines are desired or funded. Nor how long it takes to assemble a submarine.

Given what is known about the size of the facilities and their layout, it's speculation on the maximum number of slots that could be used, whilst also maximising efficiency (whether new construction or maintenance) in terms of cost/time. In the Chinese commercial shipbuilding industry (and indeed in other Chinese industries), they're obsessed with efficiency and driving down costs.

Always leaving a spare lane next to the side of each submarine means that:
1. large components or modules are always able to move to a submarine
2. an entire assembled submarine can always be moved to any other location for the next stage of production. (At a minimum, we know there is a separate building for painting and anechoic tiling)

So this means any permutation of production flow could be applied

Okay, let me put it more starkly -- the point is to actively avoid trying to come up with "optimistic" projections of forthcoming PRC nuclear submarine production simply because some of the permutations of production can viably offer a higher production rate.

The cardinal sin of PLA watching is setting expectations too high and then having to walk them back.



I think we can go a step further with:

"Given an established nuclear attack submarine design, Bohai Shipyard has recently demonstrated the capability to launch in excess of 3 submarines annually"

---

It would also be factually accurate to add:

"Furthermore, we can see that Bohai shipyard has undergone a significant expansion with new submarine construction facilities.
This expansion includes completely new submarine assembly buildings which cover almost twice the land area of all equivalent buildings in the US combined."

I would say "may be able to launch approximately 3 submarines annually" to account for lack of longitudinal imagery which means we have to account for the possibility that some launches may be prior boats returning to drydock->pontoon->hall for maintenance work.

I would also say "actual procurement rate" will depend on funded boats, ability for a sufficiently sized personnel pool to keep up, and dependent on technological maturity (especially for new designs like 09V, 09VI).


All of which is another way of saying for everyone to be cautious about what the projections for actual near term PRC nuclear production may be (even if it is going to be much higher than say, between 2006-2020).
 

ACuriousPLAFan

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Another angle of the model posted by SOYO few days ago. Just putting here for reference, i can't make the translation, so is this an improved 093B or maybe an early 095 concept? It certainly does not look like a SSBN but a SSGN.
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View attachment 168025

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SOYO was saying that, ignoring the VLS cells and torpedo tubes - This model most likely can illustrate/reflect what the 096 SSBN would look like with its turtleback considered. Of course, this also rests on the assumption that the 096 SSBN would still be using a cross-tail (which I don't find to be likely, given that China already has at least one working X-tail submarine).
 
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Blitzo

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Another angle of the model posted by SOYO few days ago. Just putting here for reference, i can't make the translation, so is this an improved 093B or maybe an early 095 concept? It certainly does not look like a SSBN but a SSGN.
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View attachment 168025

View attachment 168026

There are three columns of tubes so it is likely intended to represent 09IIIB.

We've seen a similar model in the past intended to depict 09IIIB. (Less accurate than the other models)
 

Blitzo

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Ve been saying there are 8 type 94 series subs for more than a year; according to these guys, there are 9 of them.
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Military Watch magazine is not a credible website. I have no clue where they got 32 active nuclear powered submarines from, but I suspect it's the same twitter account which a similar article from DefenceBlog.com is citing... where the original twitter account/post made some egregious errors in their basic arithmetic and have basically admitted as much when I asked them what on earth they were doing.

In short -- ignore.
 

magmunta

Junior Member
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The
Military Watch magazine is not a credible website. I have no clue where they got 32 active nuclear powered submarines from, but I suspect it's the same twitter account which a similar article from DefenceBlog.com is citing... where the original twitter account/post made some egregious errors in their basic arithmetic and have basically admitted as much when I asked them what on earth they were doing.

In short -- ignore.
Website may very well not be credible, but I am sure there are more than 6 type o94 subs. Just 6 type 094 would imply that china has built 0 ballistic missile submarines since 2018 and I don't believe that. China having 8 such subs was mentioned by American researches, it could be Derrick Fischer if I am not mistaken, in more than a year ago. After that, sub brief YouTube channel also mentioned 8 with launch dates. I don't believe the Chinese haven't built type o94 subs since 2018.

Edit: the researcher's name is Richard Fischer not Derrick Fischer.
 
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