09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Totoro]

Of course there is no way of knowing if the image is legit, but assuming it is, here's a comparison.
093b is in the middle, while 093a is above and below it. Above shows a comparison with 093a sized up to be exactly the same length.
Below shows 093a sized up so it's several meters shorter than the 093b.



If the 093b image is legit, one can see various shape and layout differences. The sail is of different shape. The location of the sail in relation to the hull is somewhat different. The bow of the submarine appears to be slightly different too, though that's a bit hard to be sure about. The back hull line is different and less tapered, with a more pronounced end. And the whole horizontal tail appears to be of different size and shape. With the towed array sonar housing either missing or applied in a different, more compact housing. Or housed in another place.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Congratulations, you played yourself.

Also, in case you didn't know - Sutton's reputation literally dipped down into the gutter sometime late last year when he erreously claimed (then unsuccessfully tried to back up his claim) that a 093A SSN sank in the fr1ggin Taiwan Strait (yes, you heard that right - Taiwan Strait which isn't even more than 60 meters deep in most parts) merely based on a couple bogus articles published by an anti-China news media that is associated with the FLG.

And if you're wondering why no big international news media were reporting on that - Because they'd be having a field day every day for months already by now if that's the actual case.

So, yeah. We do know what Sutton is, alongside one of his co-workers who sincerely believed that Chinese warships have no watertight doors.

We are approaching the one year anniversary here.

Which will come first?

Which will come first — Xavier’s indoor tour video of Type 052D or H I Sutton’s apology for peddling obvious fake news about Type 093 sinking?

www.sinodefenceforum.com

 

[folklo]

I am again posting a doubt as i did not get a response in the ask anything forum.

I am slightly confused here regarding the total number of PLAN SSNs and SSBNs? Can anyone give some clarity on the issue preferably with pennant numbers as there are multiple inputs with varied numbers elsewhere.

 

[Totoro]

Basically, no one knows for sure. That's why there are various numbers thrown around.
China isn't gonna say how many it has, that's classified.
The US can likely track the real number but it too profits from not showing what it knows.

So what's left is basically open source intelligence effort, regular people taking images, think tanks buying commercial satellite imagery, some old news bites about such and such submarine milestone and so on.

That being said, most of the fairly respectable sources seem to focus on a similar range of numbers.
6-7 093/093A SSNs in service and 2-4 093B SSNs launched but not in service yet.
With 094/A it's a bit easier as most seem to settle on 6 of those in service.

Another question is how many of the older 091 SSNs are still in service. Tracking retired vessels is quite hard, harder than tracking newly built ones. So anything between zero and 3 is still bandied around by various sources.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Another question is how many of the older 091 SSNs are still in service. Tracking retired vessels is quite hard, harder than tracking newly built ones. So anything between zero and 3 is still bandied around by various sources.

Those remaining 091 SSNs and sole 092 SSBN are pretty much being used as training platforms only today.

Hopefully, they can finally be retired soon and their present roles taken over by the original two 093 SSNs and the first 094 SSBN in terms of role, given that Huludao is now getting ready to churn out newer/next-gen SSNs and SSBNs like sausages (if not already).

 

[Index]

Basically, no one knows for sure. That's why there are various numbers thrown around.
China isn't gonna say how many it has, that's classified.
The US can likely track the real number but it too profits from not showing what it knows.

So what's left is basically open source intelligence effort, regular people taking images, think tanks buying commercial satellite imagery, some old news bites about such and such submarine milestone and so on.

That being said, most of the fairly respectable sources seem to focus on a similar range of numbers.
6-7 093/093A SSNs in service and 2-4 093B SSNs launched but not in service yet.
With 094/A it's a bit easier as most seem to settle on 6 of those in service.

Another question is how many of the older 091 SSNs are still in service. Tracking retired vessels is quite hard, harder than tracking newly built ones. So anything between zero and 3 is still bandied around by various sources.

I don't think anyone except China knows. Some of the bases are in covered tunnels, so it's impossible to know how many SSNs there are once they get commissioned, as even if 2 subs stumble on eachother in the far waters, they would have no way of knowing which serial a certain PLAN boat was. And you can't count them when they surface in base.

Presumably some in the military could have leaked it, but I think the knowledge would be more widespread if someone did.

 

[Maikeru]

All we can say for certain is:

• At least 6 093/A have been commissioned;
• At least 6 094/A have been commissioned;
• At most 7 093B have been launched.

 

[antiterror13]

Those remaining 091 SSNs and sole 092 SSBN are pretty much being used as training platforms only today.

Hopefully, they can finally be retired soon and their present roles taken over by the original two 093 SSNs and the first 094 SSBN in terms of role, given that Huludao is now getting ready to churn out newer/next-gen SSNs and SSBNs like sausages (if not already).

Do you think the Chinese miniaturization nuclear reactor technology is no longer a bottleneck for SSN and SSBN ?

 

[folklo]

Basically, no one knows for sure. That's why there are various numbers thrown around.
China isn't gonna say how many it has, that's classified.
The US can likely track the real number but it too profits from not showing what it knows.

So what's left is basically open source intelligence effort, regular people taking images, think tanks buying commercial satellite imagery, some old news bites about such and such submarine milestone and so on.

That being said, most of the fairly respectable sources seem to focus on a similar range of numbers.
6-7 093/093A SSNs in service and 2-4 093B SSNs launched but not in service yet.
With 094/A it's a bit easier as most seem to settle on 6 of those in service.

Another question is how many of the older 091 SSNs are still in service. Tracking retired vessels is quite hard, harder than tracking newly built ones. So anything between zero and 3 is still bandied around by various sources.

Thank you

Those remaining 091 SSNs and sole 092 SSBN are pretty much being used as training platforms only today.

Hopefully, they can finally be retired soon and their present roles taken over by the original two 093 SSNs and the first 094 SSBN in terms of role, given that Huludao is now getting ready to churn out newer/next-gen SSNs and SSBNs like sausages (if not already).

Thanks

All we can say for certain is:

• At least 6 093/A have been commissioned;
• At least 6 094/A have been commissioned;
• At most 7 093B have been launched.

That's helpful, now lets wait for some more information on pennant numbers

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Do you think the Chinese miniaturization nuclear reactor technology is no longer a bottleneck for SSN and SSBN ?

No close-up knowledge on the matter, though I certainly hope so.

That's helpful, now lets wait for some more information on pennant numbers

With pennant numbers now scraped/not painted at all on the sails of PLAN submarines across the fleet, am afraid that's going to be much harder to note.