09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

Maikeru

Major
Registered Member
do you have any prove there are 2 of the mod 1?

It makes a lot of sense for them to just continuously iterate with 1 boat per mod until they get something they are happy with. Kind of like what they did with 052 to 052C.

At least according to @Patchwork_Chimera, they got a lot quieter by the most recent one. I have no reason to doubt that. If they are mass produce 093B, then they are probably at least somewhat happy with its performance.
Also, cannot see the tail of the third one (big hump) - does it in fact has TASS? If not then that points to the natural circulation reactor theory (since we know it's not a VLS).

Pic of the last pair so I think we can confirm that there are at least 7 093/A.
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schrage musik

Junior Member
Registered Member
do you have any prove there are 2 of the mod 1?

It makes a lot of sense for them to just continuously iterate with 1 boat per mod until they get something they are happy with. Kind of like what they did with 052 to 052C.

At least according to @Patchwork_Chimera, they got a lot quieter by the most recent one. I have no reason to doubt that. If they are mass produce 093B, then they are probably at least somewhat happy with its performance.

No proof at all. But there have been rumors of 2 "093A" for many years.
 

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
Is this finally the 052D moment for Chinese subs?
I'd say a 052C moment. Limited mass deployment and still not comparable to the highest end US equipment despite being "modern". The 052D was easily comparable to latest US destoyers. In fact it was more modern and capable in some important aspects.

Of course, people may disagree. This kind of analogies are never accurate and always subjective, after all.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'd say a 052C moment. Limited mass deployment and still not comparable to the highest end US equipment despite being "modern". The 052D was easily comparable to latest US destoyers. In fact it was more modern and capable in some important aspects.

Of course, people may disagree. This kind of analogies are never accurate and always subjective, after all.
Well, the PLAN is capable of entering a 052D moment for conventional submarines, but SSNs and SSBNs are more technologically demanding. It is all about reducing noise level, which has long plagued PLAN nuclear submarines. I think Dr. Ma Weiming proposed solving Chinese SSN and SSBNs' noise issue with nuclear-powered integrated electric propulsion combined with rim-driven propulsion. But this is a very ambitious proposal because Ma and his team must first figure out all the materials needed to produce such system in the first place. Then it is about whether the current industrial beds are precise enough to produce the rim/propellers surfaces smooth enough to reduce noise. If not, more precise industrial beds would have to be developed. All together, they could take years, but should these technological hurdles be overcome, China would finally be able to match the US in SSN and SSBNs, surpassing Russia once and for all.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Well, the PLAN is capable of entering a 052D moment for conventional submarines, but SSNs and SSBNs are more technologically demanding. It is all about reducing noise level, which has long plagued PLAN nuclear submarines. I think Dr. Ma Weiming proposed solving Chinese SSN and SSBNs' noise issue with nuclear-powered integrated electric propulsion combined with rim-driven propulsion.

He said that future Chinese nuclear submarines would utilize nuclear integrated electric propulsion.

He made no statement about rim drives and that was the community completely misreading the actual video interview at the time.

And I'm pretty sure he didn't say that the nuclear integrated electric propulsion would "solve" Chinese nuclear submarine noise "issues". There are many ways to mitigate noise from a nuclear submarine, and we can expect PLAN nuclear boats to have advanced in all of them. Nuclear electric propulsion would help somewhat, but if you aren't able to advance in all of the other domains, then you're really missing out on a lot of easier to reach fruit.

Newer reactor designs (with newer and quieter cooling/pumps), improved dampening systems, better materials, improved CNC and quality of manufacturing, better hydrodynamics design in general thanks to more modern computer aided design and simulations, larger pressure hull for more volume of sound dampening... Among others.

Those can all be done first without needing more exotic nuclear electric propulsion, and some of the above can be applied on new production variants of existing submarine classes (such as 09IIIB for 09III family)


But this is a very ambitious proposal because Ma and his team must first figure out all the materials needed to produce such system in the first place. Then it is about whether the current industrial beds are precise enough to produce the rim/propellers surfaces smooth enough to reduce noise. If not, more precise industrial beds would have to be developed. All together, they could take years, but should these technological hurdles be overcome, China would finally be able to match the US in SSN and SSBNs, surpassing Russia once and for all.

Again, the rim drive was never proposed by Ma to begin with.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Main tech i am looking forward to seeing is pumpjet propulsion.
Type-093B-SSN-China-e1652789918458.jpeg
Afaik the latest 093s have a type of pump jet. There's also a model of the sub from one of the manufecturers I've seen showing it clearly, but I can't find that picture.

China does such heavy iterative updates on the 093 that new 093 are radically different from old ones. They don't update the designation for whatever reason, even if the subs are straight up different looking.

I think it is possible that 2022 block 093s are essentially 095 technology on a smaller hull.
 
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