how can you think anti-sub helicopter was hitting active sonar's ping from a far distance?
09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread
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how can you think anti-sub helicopter was hitting active sonar's ping from a far distance?
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
No, your lack of education on submarines yet confidence to discuss them is ridiculous.
If a photo of an 093B is precious for them then their intelligence really sucks, I mean they have intelligence officers who don't even know how to use google. They know its acoustics when it's in non-war mode. They know what it sounds like when its being tracked and purposefully making noise, which is standard procedure when you know your sub is being tracked.
Your logic doesn't even make sense. There's no threat to this submarine. If it remained underwater, what can they do to it? Absolutely nothing. "Pinging" doesn't mean anything and doesn't do anything to the sub. There's no reason for the sub to surface other than to raise the flag and tell them what's about to happen to them if they don't leave. If it wanted, it could sail into uncontested Chinese waters (which are well within 24 hours of sailing) and have the Chinese navy warn them to back off or be destroyed as intruders into its territory. The commander chose to show them the flag.
I don't know what country you're from, but in China and the US, the flag means pride. Maybe in your country, it means shame and humiliation. You have to keep that to yourself.
Yes, that is exactly your problem, one of many.
You mean a legal distance? What is the legal distance? Chinese Flankers fly 25 feet across and in front of US recon planes without breaking any laws.
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JMSDF's destroyer and helicopter continuously chased the sub for nearly 24 hours, and hit active sonar pinging from short distance. then, the sub surfaced and showed flag. it's not shame for PLAN?
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
If you follow someone all day long before he finally decides to open his coat revealing his police badge causing you to leave him alone, is that a shame for him?
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manqiangrexue
Brigadier
After discussion here, this is what I make of this:
PLAN sent this sub for data collection in the waters around the Diaoyu. They didn't know if any Japanese would happen to be there and thus be able to pick it up in such shallow waters but they were ok with it if they did because they had preventative measures to hide its true acoustic signature. The Japanese were there and they saw the sub. It didn't care and continued to collect data for 5 days knowing the Japanese could do nothing to it. When its mission was completed, it slowly sailed away at nowhere near its max speed as the Japanese continued to follow it and curse at it (pinging it) with no actions they could take. Eventually, it was far enough and the captain decided to show the Chinese flag telling them to look at this flag, which will operate as it pleases without anything you can do about it. It is more of a taunt that anything.
PLAN sent this sub for data collection in the waters around the Diaoyu. They didn't know if any Japanese would happen to be there and thus be able to pick it up in such shallow waters but they were ok with it if they did because they had preventative measures to hide its true acoustic signature. The Japanese were there and they saw the sub. It didn't care and continued to collect data for 5 days knowing the Japanese could do nothing to it. When its mission was completed, it slowly sailed away at nowhere near its max speed as the Japanese continued to follow it and curse at it (pinging it) with no actions they could take. Eventually, it was far enough and the captain decided to show the Chinese flag telling them to look at this flag, which will operate as it pleases without anything you can do about it. It is more of a taunt that anything.
from SCMP article,
"Some military experts believe the vessel was forced to surface, but others say there is not enough information to back up that theory."
“This is such a shame for the navy,” said a Beijing-based military source, who requested anonymity, adding that the vessel was detected because it was “too noisy”.
"It is also unusual that a nuclear submarine – which could stay underwater for months – surfaced in front of another navy, given that they usually strive to stay unseen and undetected."
“Once a submarine has been exposed and its unique acoustics have been recorded, it puts them at a great disadvantage,” said Li Jie, a researcher at the Naval Military Studies Research Institute in Beijing.
Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong believed the nuclear attack submarine was forced to surface, and said it was “dumb” of the Chinese navy to allow its features to be seen and photographed.
He also dismissed claims that the submarine was flying a Chinese flag to assert its claim to sovereignty over the Diaoyus, noting that it surfaced in international waters.
“If they wanted to claim sovereignty, why didn’t the submarine enter the territorial seas of the islands?” Wong said.
"Some military experts believe the vessel was forced to surface, but others say there is not enough information to back up that theory."
“This is such a shame for the navy,” said a Beijing-based military source, who requested anonymity, adding that the vessel was detected because it was “too noisy”.
"It is also unusual that a nuclear submarine – which could stay underwater for months – surfaced in front of another navy, given that they usually strive to stay unseen and undetected."
“Once a submarine has been exposed and its unique acoustics have been recorded, it puts them at a great disadvantage,” said Li Jie, a researcher at the Naval Military Studies Research Institute in Beijing.
Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong believed the nuclear attack submarine was forced to surface, and said it was “dumb” of the Chinese navy to allow its features to be seen and photographed.
He also dismissed claims that the submarine was flying a Chinese flag to assert its claim to sovereignty over the Diaoyus, noting that it surfaced in international waters.
“If they wanted to claim sovereignty, why didn’t the submarine enter the territorial seas of the islands?” Wong said.
They see me floatin'... they hatin'.
Some people have to learn that China will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law permits. That is as immutable as gravity.
Just stop.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
First of all, since you're new to the forum, you may not know but SCMP is regarded (by everyone, not just pro-Chinese members) as a highly unreliable source full of fake military "experts" like Andrei Chang, etc...
Secondly, this is again, maybe due to your ignorance of submarine operations, an example of you believing whatever you read because the paper claimed that some "expert" said something. Since developing a filter requires some knowledge on the subject, you don't have one. There are "experts" that say anything. Some say the Chinese economy will collapse; others say the US will go into recession in 2028; some say China has the means to win WWIII while others say there's no chance anyone could beat the USA. You're unfortunately still in a phase where you can only rely on external interpretation.
1. There is no mechanism that can force a sub to surface. Do any of your sources claim to know how you can do this? Or do they give you an empty conclusion?
2. Having a submarine's true stealthy acoustic signature figured out is detrimental to the sub, but if it knows you're recording, chances are, you're not recording the true acoustic signature. This is not just for Chinese subs.
3. Nobody claimed that the flag was there for sovereignty. I said it's a "Mission accomplished, see you next time" taunt.
These have all been pointed out to you. You can quote as many people you want but (false) credentials don't trump logic and quoting 1,000 "experts" saying the same thing doesn't mean it will be true if it doesn't fit logic. In other words, 1,000 people can say that a sub was forced to surface, but if there's not a way to do that, they'd still all be wrong. If you wanted to counter this statement, the only way you could do it is to provide a way for which it could be done. Even then, you would only prove the possibility, not that it actually happened.
Lastly, again, whether the flag-raising was a threat or taunt or something else is speculation, but I've never heard of any country in the world that raises their national flag to surrender. Maybe your country does; I don't know, but usually, it is the white flag for surrender. The national flag means pride.
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