075 LHD thread

[broadsword]

How about you stop twisting my original posts and with the loaded questions first ? You response already predispose that you will only accept facts that confers with your belief (that the said Chinese entities must be actively doing an illegal act to fit in your description). My position from the start was this clear and simple:

That Chinese involvement and actions with the world at large will inevitably incur negative perceptions in other countries by certain local factions and groups or they might find themselves in a violent conflict by simple fact of sheer bad luck and third party circumstances. These actions need not be illegal or even morally wrong to be perceived as negative (hence the wordings "local politics and tensions") they just need to put Chinese business and people in the limelight and center of the action, in such situations amphibious assault ships are amply suited to conduct non-military actions or evacuations due to their design and nature if such negative perceptions crosses the threshold into physical or even violent acts.

That is it nothing more and nothing less. Unless you based your response on this simple understanding, you bring absolutely nothing relevant even worthwhile to the table because you are basically prattling about in your own echo chamber. The only real irrelevancy here is you.


Oh gee and I did expect to be grateful or even elated by that act ? The shallowness of perceiving a "like" as a acknowledgement of fact lol.

Get one thing straight there, I do not post to garner likes or acknowledgment from you and your ilk around here. I post because I have my own opinions on a said matter and I like to make it known and/or to seek other reasonable inputs or discussions it. Even if there was a "dislike" button and you lot spammed the hell out it would not ruffle even the least of my feathers. Rather it would only amuse me to see how many people are so easily triggered.

My position is simple. You gave bad examples of when a Type 075 is needed. The situations that you described are too remote. Do you realise how ridiculous it is to prepare for the Malaysian election contingency? Did China evacuate its citizens from Vietnam even though it is a neigboring country? How about that Balochistan incident?

Don't whine if I call you out for bad posts.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

My position is simple. You gave bad examples of when a Type 075 is needed. The situations that you described are too remote. Do you realise how ridiculous it is to prepare for the Malaysian election contingency? Did China evacuate its citizens from Vietnam even though it is a neigboring country? How about that Balochistan incident?

Don't whine if I call you out for bad posts.

"Bad" (or in your case being merely disagreeable) does not mean these are untenable. There is no "Malaysian election contigency" because thankfully tensions in Malaysia never reached a boiling point. The Vietnam protest ended fairly quickly and with no loss of lives and no serious economical damages done so there was no need for a contingency, had it escalated further China would have have most likely be forced to respond. The Balochistan incident was a unique one off scenario which also thankfully was not replicated since, although Pakistan and China had place more effort on security and diplomacy since.


Also the latter 2 of these incidents have one thing in common : They all took place before China's navy was sufficiently modernized and expended, and before Chinese foreign policy began to take a definitive shape in regards to it's overseas influence and interest.

When China had the mind to, it has proven that it can act decisively. During the Libyan crisis, China was lucky that it had several good sized vessels in the area at the time to facilitate evacuation. In the Yemen civil war it was lucky that it was able to charter civilian flights to help in the evacuation. In both scenarios it was also lucky that civilian airports and sea ports were not closed off or rendered in operable due to the ongoing conflict (A 075 complement of helicopters and LCAC will overcome this problem). And in both cases, a 075 will have most certainly speed up and better facilitate the ongoing evacuation operations

With the acquisition of foreign bases abroad like the one in Djbouti, China will have avenues which it can base a Type 075 abroad for a rapid response group. For an example there is approximately 2000-3000 Chinese in Iran at this moment, if there is any military clash occurring between the US and Iran it would be in China's best interest to rapidly remove them out of harms way. And lets not forget the ongoing crisis in Venezuela which was once home to 400,000 Chinese citizens, with a good portion still remaining there.

And I am not whining, not in the least. If you can keep a reasonable discussion I am all for it.

 

[broadsword]

"Bad" (or in your case being merely disagreeable) does not mean these are untenable. There is no "Malaysian election contigency" because thankfully tensions in Malaysia never reached a boiling point. The Vietnam protest ended fairly quickly and with no loss of lives and no serious economical damages done so there was no need for a contingency, had it escalated further China would have have most likely be forced to respond. The Balochistan incident was a unique one off scenario which also thankfully was not replicated since, although Pakistan and China had place more effort on security and diplomacy since.
Also the latter 2 of these incidents have one thing in common : They all took place before China's navy was sufficiently modernized and expended, and before Chinese foreign policy began to take a definitive shape in regards to it's overseas influence and interest.

Even if they took place after China modernized its navy, it would still not change the response of no evacuation.

When China had the mind to, it has proven that it can act decisively. During the Libyan crisis, China was lucky that it had several good sized vessels in the area at the time to facilitate evacuation. In the Yemen civil war it was lucky that it was able to charter civilian flights to help in the evacuation. In both scenarios it was also lucky that civilian airports and sea ports were not closed off or rendered in operable due to the ongoing conflict. And in both cases, a 075 will have most certainly speed up and better facilitate the ongoing evacuation operations

It had nothing to do with Chinese companies running afoul of local whatnot.

With the acquisition of foreign bases abroad like the one in Djbouti, China will have avenues which it can base a Type 075 abroad for a rapid response group. For an example there is approximately 2000-3000 Chinese in Iran at this moment, if there is any military clash occurring between the US and Iran it would be in China's best interest to rapidly remove them out of harms way. And lets not forget the ongoing crisis in Venezuela which was once home to 400,000 Chinese citizens, with a good portion still remaining there.

Agreed.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

The fortunate incidents above should never ever blind one to the fact that such tensions had boiled over with tragic results. The Indonesian riots of 1998s and the May 13 Incident in Malaysia had shown time and time again that racial, cultural and economic tensions can and had reached boiling points in the past and will likely rear its ugly head in the future. And these incidents can take place over vast periods of time and the buildup to it are always obvious and predictable.

 

[broadsword]

The fortunate incidents above should never ever blind one to the fact that such tensions had boiled over with tragic results. The Indonesian riots of 1998s and the May 13 Incident in Malaysia had shown time and time again that racial, cultural and economic tensions can and had reached boiling points in the past and will likely rear its ugly head in the future. And these incidents can take place over vast periods of time and the buildup to it are always obvious and predictable.

Again, these have nothing to do with Chinese companies running afoul of local whatnot. And it was not the Chinese expatriate workers who were targeted. And if they were, China would have probably evacuated their own citizens first and foremost, and the rest for humanitarian reasons.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Even if they took place after China modernized its navy, it would still not change the response of no evacuation.

Not true, and the premise is false. While these incidents did take place, they did not escalate to point that necessitate a response on China's behalf. But the potential for it to do so was always there.

Even if they took place after China modernized its navy, it would still not change the response of no evacuation.
It had nothing to do with Chinese companies running afoul of local whatnot.

It involved Chinese people, which was and always is a point in my contention. The idea that a crisis must involve both Chinese people and Chinese companies at the same time in order to facilitate a Chinese reponse is ridiculous

Even if they took place after China modernized its navy, it would still not change the response of no evacuation.
Agreed.

Glad we see eye to eye.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Again, these have nothing to do with Chinese companies running afoul of local whatnot. And it was not the Chinese expatriate workers who were targeted.

Again refer to my post above. The thing with these riots is that they do not care of one professed allegiance. So long as one was Chinese one was a fair target.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Also this little tibit, China did actually conducted some evacuation efforts during the Vietnam riots, but they never increased the tempo due to the riots quelling down in relatively short order.

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This rebuts the contention that China will not react to a crisis that involves its interests and concerns. And that the only thing that holds China back atm is its capability to do so.

 

[broadsword]

Not true, and the premise is false. While these incidents did take place, they did not escalate to point that necessitate a response on China's behalf. But the potential for it to do so was always there.

But that is the point. The examples you gave never escalated to the need for 075.

It involved Chinese people, which was and always is a point in my contention. The idea that a crisis must involve both Chinese people and Chinese companies at the same time in order to facilitate a Chinese repose is ridiculous

Your wrote :

As China has undoubtedly experienced a few years before, with so many Chinese working overseas in potentially unstable countries and multi million projects ongoing it is inevitable that these two groups would run afoul of local politics and tensions.

That was the reason for my beef.

 

[broadsword]

Again refer to my post above. The thing with these riots is that they do not care of one professed allegiance. So long as one was Chinese one was a fair target.

Yes, but it was not the fault of the Chinese companies.