071 LPD thread
- Thread starter sumdud
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re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
Actually an 071 costs $300 mil USD going off wikipedia... and that figure's been used on a few other websites too I think, or something in that range. Sounds about right because over on CDF there was talk about costs of LCS compared to other ships and 071 was brought up... and apparently you could get two or three 071s for one LCS at this moment or something lul.
500-800 men and 15-20 fast AAVs with helicopters can be sent over the horizon and more importantly, during battle under high pressure at a defended shore. civilian ro-ro ships would be good for moving massive amounts of cargo, men and vehicles once you've secured a beach head or port, and LPDs won't be used for simply moving stuff when the battle's said and done.
I think you said 071s don't have good self protection either -- well it's got 4 AK630s and an AK-176, which is decent. and they won't be operating alone either, there'll be destroyers, frigates and other LPDs operating in a task group with it. Not to mention air cover in future with Varyag, or from PLAAF if in a taiwan scenario.
And I think the complement should be vehicles and men. I mean it's not like soldiers will be kipping in the well deck and we aren't going to have ZBD04s bunking lol... We've had pictures of the well deck with ZBD04s as well and I think it can hold at least 20, going from this picture (count them).
Then, if they decide to use all the spacelike beneath we are definitely looking at 30-40 AFVs. Not sure if that would be effective in combat because it might be too many to deploy during battle.
Not to mention the dedicated vehicle "hall" that we know is there from the cutaway below (see where the Type 99 or 96 MBT is below)... could probably fit more vehicles there.
All those vehicles and men, able to be deployed in battle with a good 2-3 large helicopters on a vessel... very very decent. Get a half dozen of them, maybe a carrier and PLAN will have expeditionary capabilities probably in the top five of the world.
Actually an 071 costs $300 mil USD going off wikipedia... and that figure's been used on a few other websites too I think, or something in that range. Sounds about right because over on CDF there was talk about costs of LCS compared to other ships and 071 was brought up... and apparently you could get two or three 071s for one LCS at this moment or something lul.
500-800 men and 15-20 fast AAVs with helicopters can be sent over the horizon and more importantly, during battle under high pressure at a defended shore. civilian ro-ro ships would be good for moving massive amounts of cargo, men and vehicles once you've secured a beach head or port, and LPDs won't be used for simply moving stuff when the battle's said and done.
I think you said 071s don't have good self protection either -- well it's got 4 AK630s and an AK-176, which is decent. and they won't be operating alone either, there'll be destroyers, frigates and other LPDs operating in a task group with it. Not to mention air cover in future with Varyag, or from PLAAF if in a taiwan scenario.
And I think the complement should be vehicles and men. I mean it's not like soldiers will be kipping in the well deck and we aren't going to have ZBD04s bunking lol... We've had pictures of the well deck with ZBD04s as well and I think it can hold at least 20, going from this picture (count them).
Then, if they decide to use all the spacelike beneath we are definitely looking at 30-40 AFVs. Not sure if that would be effective in combat because it might be too many to deploy during battle.
Not to mention the dedicated vehicle "hall" that we know is there from the cutaway below (see where the Type 99 or 96 MBT is below)... could probably fit more vehicles there.
All those vehicles and men, able to be deployed in battle with a good 2-3 large helicopters on a vessel... very very decent. Get a half dozen of them, maybe a carrier and PLAN will have expeditionary capabilities probably in the top five of the world.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
a single LHD would take as many helos as 6 LPDs, around 18-20, so I guess maybe right now isnt the best time to start making a LHD
however i always thought that production would be 3 LPDs followed by 3 LHDs, I am really interested to see wether a 4th LPD pops up or a LHD, either way by 2015 China will be well on its way to a serious world naval power
I wonder if China is planning any naval varient of the WZ10 attack helo, cus that would be fit for a LHD
a single LHD would take as many helos as 6 LPDs, around 18-20, so I guess maybe right now isnt the best time to start making a LHD
however i always thought that production would be 3 LPDs followed by 3 LHDs, I am really interested to see wether a 4th LPD pops up or a LHD, either way by 2015 China will be well on its way to a serious world naval power
I wonder if China is planning any naval varient of the WZ10 attack helo, cus that would be fit for a LHD
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
^ I'd be happy if they get out three LHDs eventually. They just need some better helicopters. Z-8 can fill the role of heavy troop transport but they need a better utility chopper like blackhawk or NH-90... and there just isn't one on the horizon yet.
I'm hoping for an eventual 2:1:1 ratio for LPD (6), LHD (3) and carrier (3), maybe one for each fleet.
^ I'd be happy if they get out three LHDs eventually. They just need some better helicopters. Z-8 can fill the role of heavy troop transport but they need a better utility chopper like blackhawk or NH-90... and there just isn't one on the horizon yet.
I'm hoping for an eventual 2:1:1 ratio for LPD (6), LHD (3) and carrier (3), maybe one for each fleet.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
after seeing the pics from that helicopter expo I think there will be no shortage of choice of helos for China in the coming years
I mean the traditional Z9 and Z8 combination is there but Z15 and a future 20 ton heavy lift helo is in the works, Z15 is due to be ready by 2015 and by 2020 we should start seeing other indigenous helos coming online, maybe even a few suprises along the way can join the fleet, I mean AC313 is a 13 ton helo not bad for a naval varient, AC313 could be a testbed for something bigger and better
after seeing the pics from that helicopter expo I think there will be no shortage of choice of helos for China in the coming years
I mean the traditional Z9 and Z8 combination is there but Z15 and a future 20 ton heavy lift helo is in the works, Z15 is due to be ready by 2015 and by 2020 we should start seeing other indigenous helos coming online, maybe even a few suprises along the way can join the fleet, I mean AC313 is a 13 ton helo not bad for a naval varient, AC313 could be a testbed for something bigger and better
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
AC313 is basically just Z-8 though, and I'm not sure if it would be wise to modify Z-15 for military use given it's a civilian helicopter primarily. Would require much redesign, and even then I think it will only be a marginal improvement over Z-9.
We've seen quite a few smaller helicopters from china, and apparently Z-8 production is going up too, but given how mediocre it was before the improvement isn't that great. the lack of a suitable blackhawk-esque helicopter for PLAN and PLA (Ka-27 and Mi-17 can fill those roles, for now but I don't think there's enough) will need to be fixed soon, and there doesn't seem to be a decent medium sized helicopter in the works at all.
AC313 is basically just Z-8 though, and I'm not sure if it would be wise to modify Z-15 for military use given it's a civilian helicopter primarily. Would require much redesign, and even then I think it will only be a marginal improvement over Z-9.
We've seen quite a few smaller helicopters from china, and apparently Z-8 production is going up too, but given how mediocre it was before the improvement isn't that great. the lack of a suitable blackhawk-esque helicopter for PLAN and PLA (Ka-27 and Mi-17 can fill those roles, for now but I don't think there's enough) will need to be fixed soon, and there doesn't seem to be a decent medium sized helicopter in the works at all.
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
guys, Type 071 is for force projection. They got plenty of Type 072s, hovercrafts and some air transport that they can use in the initial phase of an invasion before using civilian ship after that. But if they want to take an expeditionary task, it will be led by a Type 071 or a carrier or a helo carrier.
Also, Z-8 has been improved quite a lot in the past few years. They are more than enough to satisfy Type 071's needs. Also, Z-15 is going to be the most advanced helicopter of its class (7 ton) once it comes into service. According to the guys on Chinese bbs, it can be stretched into a 8 ton class, which would be comparable to Seahawks. It's definitely not going to only offer "marginal improvement" over Z-9.
guys, Type 071 is for force projection. They got plenty of Type 072s, hovercrafts and some air transport that they can use in the initial phase of an invasion before using civilian ship after that. But if they want to take an expeditionary task, it will be led by a Type 071 or a carrier or a helo carrier.
Also, Z-8 has been improved quite a lot in the past few years. They are more than enough to satisfy Type 071's needs. Also, Z-15 is going to be the most advanced helicopter of its class (7 ton) once it comes into service. According to the guys on Chinese bbs, it can be stretched into a 8 ton class, which would be comparable to Seahawks. It's definitely not going to only offer "marginal improvement" over Z-9.
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MwRYum
Major
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
The Chinese have several helicopter projects going on, but the common weakest link of them all is the lack of proper "All-China" engine, even the AC313 - modernized Z-8 - reportedly using PWC engines.
Once this hurdle is dealt with, proper made-in-China "UH-60 / EH-101 / NH-90 class" helicopters will be a reality.
Besides, eventhough PLA can live with Mi-17 for now, the fact that it's not domestically made means the PLA will rely on the Z-8 and Z-9 more generally, unless in situations where heavy-lift and highland-operation is concern
The Chinese have several helicopter projects going on, but the common weakest link of them all is the lack of proper "All-China" engine, even the AC313 - modernized Z-8 - reportedly using PWC engines.
Once this hurdle is dealt with, proper made-in-China "UH-60 / EH-101 / NH-90 class" helicopters will be a reality.
Besides, eventhough PLA can live with Mi-17 for now, the fact that it's not domestically made means the PLA will rely on the Z-8 and Z-9 more generally, unless in situations where heavy-lift and highland-operation is concern
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
the modernized Z-8s don't use PWC engine. They use Chinese engine. That's actually part of the problem. Hopefully once they get WZ-16 developed, a variant of it would also be able to be used on Z-8.
the modernized Z-8s don't use PWC engine. They use Chinese engine. That's actually part of the problem. Hopefully once they get WZ-16 developed, a variant of it would also be able to be used on Z-8.
franco-russe
Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
Actually, I think they are ZTS05 (or ZTD05) which is even better, as it has a 105 mm gun. As you can see from the other picture, there could easily be 40 if they used the two central lanes.
Actually, I think they are ZTS05 (or ZTD05) which is even better, as it has a 105 mm gun. As you can see from the other picture, there could easily be 40 if they used the two central lanes.
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