071 LPD thread

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

GREAT pics tphuang!

Two LPDs now. The 071s are fine looking vessels and will add significant amphibious capability to the PLAN, particularly as more are built.

With the new DDG, the progress on the Varyag, the LPD, more subs, and more FFGs, this has turned into a real banner year for production for the PLAN.

No offense, but I think that's a bit exaggerating, espicially considering the equivalent steps the US has made in similar time with the continuous development of LPD, LHA, CVN and of course the production of the AB class which doesn't seem to have a limit as of yet.

And if you factor in how capable the vessels under construction for the PLAN are in comparison to the USN equivalents (namely submarines and surface combatants), well imho it puts things into perspective.
I think 2010 has been a good year (compared to the hiatus from 2008 onwards) and continues the upward trend we've seen this decade but isn't a major "spike" in the charts.

 

[jowlim]

»Ø¸´: The 071 LPD and the Landing Craft

Thanks tphuang!

She's indeed a beauty! It is always great to see a new ship being build, launch and commissioned... well not there yet, but hopefully we will soon see her paying friendly foreign port visit

 

[joshuatree]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

i don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but I'm kinda scared and shocked on how fast they finished the 071. It's freakishly fast.
But I guess if anyone can do things in speed its China. They have 24/7 shifts. Unlike us, we don't work at night and only work during weekdays. If China really needs it, prioritizes it, and invest enough resources into it they can get it done ASAP. Compared to the Carrier which they have been have limping into it in priority and resources.

While really fast, I don't think it's anything freakish. When the US needed to during WW2, they were cranking out Liberty ships probably one a day. I don't remember the exact rate but it was as hyper as this 2nd 071. Perhaps the anti-piracy patrols, Diaoyutai dispute, Korean flashpoint, or South China Sea disputes that have given impetus to fast track this vessel.

 

[MwRYum]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

While really fast, I don't think it's anything freakish. When the US needed to during WW2, they were cranking out Liberty ships probably one a day. I don't remember the exact rate but it was as hyper as this 2nd 071. Perhaps the anti-piracy patrols, Diaoyutai dispute, Korean flashpoint, or South China Sea disputes that have given impetus to fast track this vessel.

Anti piracy patrols is just an excuse for PLAN to conduct long-range offshore trainings, especially for a navy that lacks greatly in wartime experience; Diaoyu Islands was a different animal, but still things died down somewhat(it's political and it ain't like Japan woke up one morning and decided to play it differently, there has to be US element pulling strings from behind); South China See issue would be a long term and lingering problem, even without resources there's the vital shipping lane issue to be contend with; the flashpoint just erupt in Korean waters? It won't push for anything that'd lead to LPD to be used...

Timing itself isn't that much to shine about, for the time taken between laid down and launch of the 2 ships are the same, 6 months approximate. What can be said is that if they finally make the 2nd boat of the 071 class with little external difference to the lead boat, then it seems clearly that the Chinese has finally ironed out the kinks and shifting gear into serial production of it, but like I've said before, does that mean the LCAC also goes into serial production as well?

Also, the time gap could it be due to issue with obtaining suitable engines? The lead boat use French products, is that solved in the new boat, thus the time gap?

 

[tphuang]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

No offense, but I think that's a bit exaggerating, espicially considering the equivalent steps the US has made in similar time with the continuous development of LPD, LHA, CVN and of course the production of the AB class which doesn't seem to have a limit as of yet.

And if you factor in how capable the vessels under construction for the PLAN are in comparison to the USN equivalents (namely submarines and surface combatants), well imho it puts things into perspective.
I think 2010 has been a good year (compared to the hiatus from 2008 onwards) and continues the upward trend we've seen this decade but isn't a major "spike" in the charts.

I've actually commented this on my blog, but this has been a banner year for PLAN. The amount of new ships coming out far surpasses what we have seen in the past 2 years. In fact, I called this the start of the 2nd major wave of PLAN construction. You don't need to compare PLAN to USN. Why does PLAN really need to exceed the production rate of USN to be considered to have a fruitful year?

Think about it this way. If US bankrupts itself by spending too much money building naval ships, should China do the same thing? You have to do what your budget and technology allows you to do. And that has allowed China to start a second wave of construction.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

No offense, but I think that's a bit exaggerating, espicially considering the equivalent steps the US has made in similar time with the continuous development of LPD, LHA, CVN and of course the production of the AB class which doesn't seem to have a limit as of yet.

And if you factor in how capable the vessels under construction for the PLAN are in comparison to the USN equivalents (namely submarines and surface combatants), well imho it puts things into perspective.
I think 2010 has been a good year (compared to the hiatus from 2008 onwards) and continues the upward trend we've seen this decade but isn't a major "spike" in the charts.

It can be (and is) a banner year for the PLAN without any comparison to the USN. What the PLAN is doing with amphib, surface combatants, the Varyag, sub surface combatants, etc. In 2010 is significant from their own standpoint.

I am well aware of and applaud what the USN is doing as well and the PLAN is no where near the USN capability in terms of quantity or capability. But the PLAN trend is canted upward at a significantly high rate and bears attention.

In addition, the US focuses on world-wide events and stages and is therefore more dispersed. The PLAN is focused on the WESTPAC out to the second island chain and their build up is creating a naval arms race throughout the area as Japan, S Korea, the ROC and even Australia respond.

See my:

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Sites for much more documentation.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

It can be (and is) a banner year for the PLAN without any comparison to the USN. What the PLAN is doing with amphib, surface combatants, the Varyag, sub surface combatants, etc. In 2010 is significant from their own standpoint.

I am well aware of and applaud what the USN is doing as well and the PLAN is no where near the USN capability in terms of quantity or capability. But the PLAN trend is canted upward at a significantly high rate and bears attention.

In addition, the US focuses on world-wide events and stages and is therefore more dispersed. The PLAN is focused on the WESTPAC out to the second island chain and their build up is creating a naval arms race throughout the area as Japan, S Korea, the ROC and even Australia respond.

See my:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sites for much more documentation.

Right, for the PLAN when compared to itself 2010 can be considered a banner year, after two years of slow (frankly mediocre) production.
I just hope this is "banner year" will be considered the norm in a few years time.

It's just that when I look upon the capabilities of the USN war machine and then the PLAN I always become a little faint (recent examples such as the deployment of the GW carrier strike group to SK, and the ease of which AB destroyers can be so easily redeployed, each probably worth two 052Cs and a 054A in capability).

And I'm quite aware of your websites, they're very informative, I espicially like the page with the detailed comparison between the PLAN and USN/ROCN forces.

 

[montyp165]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Right, for the PLAN when compared to itself 2010 can be considered a banner year, after two years of slow (frankly mediocre) production.
I just hope this is "banner year" will be considered the norm in a few years time.

It's just that when I look upon the capabilities of the USN war machine and then the PLAN I always become a little faint (recent examples such as the deployment of the GW carrier strike group to SK, and the ease of which AB destroyers can be so easily redeployed, each probably worth two 052Cs and a 054A in capability).

And I'm quite aware of your websites, they're very informative, I espicially like the page with the detailed comparison between the PLAN and USN/ROCN forces.

The only major types that the PLAN doesn't have equivalents for are LHDs and CGs, but all of the necessary processes to build them are now in place, so just needs more investment to put it all together. This is also true wrt building a AB-beating destroyer type too.

 

[ZTZ99]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The only major types that the PLAN doesn't have equivalents for are LHDs and CGs, but all of the necessary processes to build them are now in place, so just needs more investment to put it all together. This is also true wrt building a AB-beating destroyer type too.

I think the PLAN is right in investing in smaller and cheaper platforms for now, since its ships are much more likely to be destroyed in a confrontation than is an AB, both because of the superior quality as well as quantity of modern ships the USN has. Don't have to build an AB-beating destroyer. A near peer is good enough. On the other hand I'm not sure if the 052C qualifies as a neer pear.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think the PLAN is right in investing in smaller and cheaper platforms for now, since its ships are much more likely to be destroyed in a confrontation than is an AB, both because of the superior quality as well as quantity of modern ships the USN has. Don't have to build an AB-beating destroyer. A near peer is good enough. On the other hand I'm not sure if the 052C qualifies as a neer pear.

My two cents, and not wanting to get into a compare debate, but 052C imho has the anti air capability (with the HQ-9 and the so called dragon eye AESA MFR) of the AB but probably not the ground/surface attack, anti ballistic and ASW capabilities (tomahawk, SM-3, ASROC/TAS/2 SH-60 respectively)
The thing is that the 96 VLS cells on the AB class are very compact, yet can hold a massive load of missiles, compared to the ridiculous circular launchers on 052C which are if anything more cumbersome and aren't very efficient volume-wise.

Err so yeah, I'm thinking it's a near peer to the AB class, but is probably better compared to the British Type 45 air defence destroyer -- both have large AESA MFRs and long range SAMs, and also a rather deficient surface strike capability (lacking LACMs, though YJ-62 can fill the gap sort of, and supposedly the launcher can also fire an LACM).